13-06-2003 05:53									#1
	Question for communists . . . . Tired of ads?

How can you consistently claim to be communists if you enjoy various services and products provided by capitalist companies?

For instance -- an American communist enjoying his vacation to Disney World.

Or something like that. I mean, if you're gonna be a communist, then renounce capitalism!

	13-06-2003 05:58									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Why? Do you think we're from Mars and we are not suppose to like Disneyland?

	13-06-2003 05:59									#3
	Put an end to popups!

It's because they're armchair communists only.

	13-06-2003 06:00									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

One can easily spend money on guns to shoot at the bourgeoisie.

	13-06-2003 06:10									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Agathon One can easily spend money on guns to shoot at the bourgeoisie.

Unlike Agathon not all of us are waiting with our guns for the revolution. j/k We live our life just like everyone else. Gotta do the best we can, because the man is always finding new ways to exploit us more.

	13-06-2003 06:13									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How can you believe in a political system that has failed so completely the times it has been tried?

	13-06-2003 06:14									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

faith is something that can always spring eternal, and something that cannot always be explained.

perhaps for them, communism is a creed...

	13-06-2003 06:15									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc How can you believe in a political system that has failed so completely the times it has been tried?

You consider me weird because I don't care about being the next Bill Gates. I just don't want to be exploited by the next Bill Gates.

	13-06-2003 06:16									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Stupidity also springs eternal...apparently

	13-06-2003 06:17									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You consider me weird because I don't care about being the next Bill Gates.

I think that you have a persecution complex.

	13-06-2003 06:26									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

we like eating.

	13-06-2003 06:44									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Real communists shouldn't be using computers.

If they do they are hypocrites.

Sorry I just had to say that. Seriously, communism is one of the most illogical philosophies (economic and political) anybody who come up with. It is a joke and in the end makes the people suffer.

	13-06-2003 06:48									#13
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I think that you have a persecution complex.

No, you have an absolution complex. There is some more black and white for Imran.

	13-06-2003 06:51									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Fez Real communists shouldn't be using computers.

Then you would be able to spread your fascist propaganda on poly without anyone to question it.

	13-06-2003 06:54									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Then you would be able to spread your fascist propaganda on poly without anyone to question it.

Well as I love the corporation, I have the right to use the computer and internet. As you hate the corporation you should go live in a cave.

	13-06-2003 06:56									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

Since some of them can apparently take corporate sponsors without feelings of guilt too, it's not very surprising. You don't see many "to the letter" communists these days....they seem to be bunch of strange hybrids (not like that's "bad", you know....).

	13-06-2003 07:03									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hey, hey -- I'm not saying that communism is not a legitimate ideology. I can respect communism.

MY question is what was posted in the initial thread -- how can you be communist while enjoying the luxuries of capitalism??

	13-06-2003 07:12									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

MrFun, if Communists went round blowing up Disneyland as a symbolic gesture towards Capitalism, would that make you happy?

There's having an ideology, and then there's expressing it in a meaningful manner.

What are you trying to do, encourage them?

	13-06-2003 07:26									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

While I'm not a communist, I must say I find such questions a little odd. Are communists not supposed to enjoy themselves?

	13-06-2003 07:44									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Despite being communists, we happen to live in a capitalist society. Since we couldn't have changed it yet, we have no choice but to live in it, for the time being.

Communism isn't an ethics of poverty nor of ascetism. Actually, one of the hopes of communism is that everybody can afford a comfortable and enjoyable way of life. I don't see any problem with doing so in the capitalist society if we can afford it.

	13-06-2003 07:51									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Well the only problem I have is I can't possibly see how communism could ever function properly.

	13-06-2003 07:57									#22
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Fez Well the only problem I have is I can't possibly see how communism could ever function properly.

Same here, if you are talking about Marx's utopia of a classless, stateless society that wouls function wonderfully just because people would be nice to each other (this is a tad less stupid, but Marx' utopia is worryingly close to Adam Smith's utopia as he seems to believe in an invisible hand)

Communism, in the meaning of giving the economic power to the workers rather than the stakeholders, and in the meaning that the organized community (= State) makes sure everybody gets an education, a job, and a roof, this communism has no reasons not to work, if it avoids dogmatism and dictatorship.

	13-06-2003 08:04									#23
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Communism, in the meaning of giving the economic power to the workers rather than the stakeholders, and in the meaning that the organized community (= State) makes sure everybody gets an education, a job, and a roof, this communism has no reasons not to work, if it avoids dogmatism and dictatorship.

The other problem I have with that is this power could be mismanaged. Sure it isn't managed 100% excellent by the stakeholders, but I highly doubt the workers would know how. We see this problem in Venezuela where Chavez is giving power to the workers, only problem is the workers have turned against him because everything went to hell.

Capitalism will always outpace Communism (every form of it) in my honest opinion.

	13-06-2003 08:10									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Fez The other problem I have with that is this power could be mismanaged. Sure it isn't managed 100% excellent by the stakeholders, but I highly doubt the workers would know how. We see this problem in Venezuela where Chavez is giving power to the workers, only problem is the workers have turned against him because everything went to hell.

I'm actually for a form of semi-representative democracy at workplace, where there is a competent leadership that gets elected, but then which is specialized in the management job. I also don't think the 1 man = 1 vote should strictly apply within a business, so that all the professions can get a decent representation, even if they are low on staff.

And I think the leadership should take care of the survival of the business first, and then of the best condition / wages for the employees. Profits should be only used for future investments making the business healthier, not to feed some fat cat.

Actually, my vision of an ideal business is pretty similar to what it is in the capitalist society. Except that the capitalist has no say anymore.

	13-06-2003 08:23									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Communism is one of the worst systems of government there is out there.

spoiler(highlight to read): The only thing out there that's worse is Democracy.

	13-06-2003 08:25									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I'm actually for a form of semi-representative democracy at workplace, where there is a competent leadership that gets elected, but then which is specialized in the management job. I also don't think the 1 man = 1 vote should strictly apply within a business, so that all the professions can get a decent representation, even if they are low on staff. And I think the leadership should take care of the survival of the business first, and then of the best condition / wages for the employees. Profits should be only used for future investments making the business healthier, not to feed some fat cat. Actually, my vision of an ideal business is pretty similar to what it is in the capitalist society. Except that the capitalist has no say anymore.

That is fine to have as your opinion. But just keep in mind you are speaking with a capitalist hardliner here.

	13-06-2003 08:27									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Fez That is fine to have as your opinion. But just keep in mind you are speaking with a capitalist hardliner here.

Don't worry, there is no way I forget

	13-06-2003 08:27									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MrFun MY question is what was posted in the initial thread -- how can you be communist while enjoying the luxuries of capitalism??

It´s a "know your enemy" thing

	13-06-2003 08:29									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Don't you see? They're trying to suck up the resources of the capitalists, so they can have better odds for the Final Revolution.

	13-06-2003 08:41									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't expect self-proclaimed communists to shun material goods, as material goods can be produced in a communist country (albeit not very good material goods), but i do expect communists to not act like raging capitalists.

Take for example my uncle, communist to the core, who owns a race-horse! Isn't that the "sport of kings"? Hardly a communist enterprise! (oxymoron as it is)

Why do communists eagerly invest in shares? Worst of all, why do they treat the working class like lepers? Perceived moral superiority is hardly about social equality, so why do they act that way?

If you ask me, it sounds like gross hipocrisy on their part