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Plan Austral is offline Plan Austral
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Oct 2001
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A question to christians and religious jews Increase Your PM Length

Is, in your opinion, the existence of the modern state of Israel the fulfilment of a biblical prophecy?

Does that influences your political views?

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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As I understand it, the current state of Israel is considered a secular state, it is not the messianic state that will come later. It has no special religious significance.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
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'A question to christians and religious jews'

I'm neither, but the State of Israel is the archetypcal 'self fulfilling prophecy' IMO

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
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Absolutely not.

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
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quote:
Originally posted by Plan Austral
Is, in your opinion, the existence of the modern state of Israel the fulfilment of a biblical prophecy?


Yes. And, here are the prophecies that I feel may refer to the birth of the State of Israel in 1947.

Ezekiel 37:11-13
Then he said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.' Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.
Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD , when I open your graves and bring you up from them.

Isaiah 66:7-8
"Before she goes into labor,
she gives birth;
before the pains come upon her,
she delivers a son.
Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children."

Does that influences your political views? [/QUOTE]

Yes. As a Christian, I feel it is important for me to care about Israel since the Bible teaches that God cares about Israel.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Plan Austral
Is, in your opinion, the existence of the modern state of Israel the fulfilment of a biblical prophecy?
No.

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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Absolutely not on both counts, Yes I am a Christian and the Bible states that a new Heaven and a new Earth will come when our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ returns, takes us up, the place of Armegeddon (Hebrew)(Revelation 16:16) plays out its part in God's Redemptive plan then a new start will be, a New Jerusalem..Read from the Book of Revelation Chapter 21 verses 1-5 speaks clearly how this old world will pass away

Peace

Grandpa Troll

cyclotron7 is offline cyclotron7
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In no way.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Many evangelical Protestants do believe that the creation of the modern state of Israel is a furfillment of biblical prophecy. I for one don't believe in prophecies but I do believe the Jews have a right to a country of there own in the land of their for fathers.

cyclotron7 is offline cyclotron7
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
I do believe the Jews have a right to a country of there own in the land of their for fathers.


So, Europe then?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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quote:
Originally posted by cyclotron7


So, Europe then?
Yeah. I would have carved it out of Germany.

cyclotron7 is offline cyclotron7
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Well, hell, let's go!

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
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No to all questions.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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"The Jews will return in Peace to the land of Israel"

I dont see that happening, the irrational backlash to the horrors of the holocaust is hardly the fullfillment of a biblical prophecy, that most would safely assume to be heralded by the coming of a (new?) messianic age.

panag is offline panag
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quote:
Originally posted by Plan Austral
Is, in your opinion, the existence of the modern state of Israel the fulfilment of a biblical prophecy?

Does that influences your political views?


hi ,

it depends how you look at it , some ultra orhodox are against it , they believe the messiah should come nad give it , but the rest , larger part , including Orthodox Greek's , druze , kopt and parts of christian and panag feel yes

voila , Q asked , A given

next Q

have a nice day

Elok is offline Elok
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Umm, Panag, what on earth are you talking about? Most of the Orthodox do NOT definitively regard Israel as a harbinger of the end times. That's the number-one reason why we've kept out of the Christian Coalition, moral-majority groups, etc. That and their whole creepy anglo-centric scene, but that's another story. For the most part the Orthodox faith does its best to stay the hell("heck") away from political controversy of any kind. If it is a sign of the end times, any sleazy maneuvering on our part certainly won't change a thing, so why don't we all mind our own business? And so on.

panag is offline panag
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quote:
Originally posted by Elok
Umm, Panag, what on earth are you talking about? Most of the Orthodox do NOT definitively regard Israel as a harbinger of the end times. That's the number-one reason why we've kept out of the Christian Coalition, moral-majority groups, etc. That and their whole creepy anglo-centric scene, but that's another story. For the most part the Orthodox faith does its best to stay the hell("heck") away from political controversy of any kind. If it is a sign of the end times, any sleazy maneuvering on our part certainly won't change a thing, so why don't we all mind our own business? And so on.


hi ,

no , what are you talking about , .......

its a fact , pure and simple , some orhodox jews are against the state of Israel because they believe the messiah should give it , ....

they are a small minority , but still , .....

and huh , there are at least two faiths that are into politics Greek orhodox and Jewish orhodox , ..... some stay away , others actively participate in politics

have a great weekend

Elok is offline Elok
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Gah. Are you talking about Orthodox Jews or Orthodox Christians, or both? Most every Orthodox *Christian* I know keeps his/her mouth shut where israel is concerned, except for my Arab friends who, quite naturally, feel inclined to respond to the question via middle finger for mostly secular reasons. I thought you were talking about OCs when you mentioned the Greeks. If you're talking about some Jewish sect of Greeks I apologize. Even if you aren't, I'm part of an Antiochian church now and don't really keep tabs on the Greeks, so who knows, you *may* be right...I doubt it though. The Orthodox church has a longstanding policy of ignoring political entanglements. If the Greeks say anything on the subject, odds are it's a Greek thing, not a Christian thing.

Plan Austral is offline Plan Austral
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My father also believes that, and he sometimes recognizes his lack of logic, for example sometimes we discuss and he admits not critizicing some "bad" actions of the State of Israel that he would otherwise critizice if done by other country because of his beliefs.

Solver is offline Solver
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No. After Mashiah comes, he will establish peace and bring Jews together, and the final battle between forces of good and evil (Mashiah and whom?) is said to happen at a place that's currently in Israeli territory, however.

But, Israel is the land that has been promised to Jews many thousands of years ago, it's Khanaan and Haaretz, that's why it belongs to Jews.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Ghostbusters flash!

Err I'm agnistic so I'm not inclined to believe in prophecies but I can't, ligocally, rule it out all together. (goes with the God question).

As far as Greeks saying anything about Irsael being the prophecy fulfilled, I haven't heard any such comments.

Concerning Greek orthodox beliefs I guess we must write to the holy Synode and ask them where the church stands. I don't know wether they believe or don't believe or have an opinion on that subject but I'm not the best person to ask since I rarely attent ceremonies and I am a "lost sheep" , don't go often to the church (Christmas/ pasha tops )

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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BTW look what I've found:
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom. 10:12, 13)

Az is offline Az
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I bet I'm number 144,000

Vesayen is offline Vesayen
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quote:
Originally posted by Plan Austral
Is, in your opinion, the existence of the modern state of Israel the fulfilment of a biblical prophecy?

Does that influences your political views?


Im a religious Jew who decides whether or not he believes in God on a daily basis...

No, I dont believe this is fuffilment of biblical prophecy-though I of course want Israel to exist.

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
BTW look what I've found:
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom. 10:12, 13)



This is where I would insert a "Bullseye" avatar or gif if I had one.

Yes Ephesians Chapter 4 vs. 5-6 states: one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV
Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved

Praise to our Lord whom paid the price once and for all!



Peace


Grandpa Troll

Wernazuma III is offline Wernazuma III
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I'm agnostic, so I can't answer your question. But I feel like telling a story:
I've just recently seen on TV a "documentary" which was supposed to be about Moses. It ended up in comparing good, peaceful and just Cromwell with Moses , then comparing the conquest/settlement of America by the protestants with Exodus and finally showing how the poor survivors of Holocaust after all the horror on refugee boats (showing dirty women with their children, hunted by vile English bombers who wanted to prevent them from arriving in the promised land :crook who wanted nothing else than live in peace on the land which was rightly theirs.
At that point I turned out my TV, it just made me sick.

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quote:
Originally posted by Wernazuma III
I'm agnostic, so I can't answer your question. But I feel like telling a story:
I've just recently seen on TV a "documentary" which was supposed to be about Moses. It ended up in comparing good, peaceful and just Cromwell with Moses , then comparing the conquest/settlement of America by the protestants with Exodus and finally showing how the poor survivors of Holocaust after all the horror on refugee boats (showing dirty women with their children, hunted by vile English bombers who wanted to prevent them from arriving in the promised land :crook who wanted nothing else than live in peace on the land which was rightly theirs.
At that point I turned out my TV, it just made me sick.


Its a Movie..not reality as in The Truth, God's inspired written word.

Read the Bible and pray for forgiveness and understanding and yes you to will recieve peace from The Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ!

Peace

Grandpa Troll

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quote:
Originally posted by Elok
Gah. Are you talking about Orthodox Jews or Orthodox Christians, or both? Most every Orthodox *Christian* I know keeps his/her mouth shut where israel is concerned, except for my Arab friends who, quite naturally, feel inclined to respond to the question via middle finger for mostly secular reasons. I thought you were talking about OCs when you mentioned the Greeks. If you're talking about some Jewish sect of Greeks I apologize. Even if you aren't, I'm part of an Antiochian church now and don't really keep tabs on the Greeks, so who knows, you *may* be right...I doubt it though. The Orthodox church has a longstanding policy of ignoring political entanglements. If the Greeks say anything on the subject, odds are it's a Greek thing, not a Christian thing.


hi ,

lets get one thing strait , Greek Orhodox = cristians or catholics

Jewish Orhodox = jew

have a nice day

 
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