14-06-2003 08:46									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov So God killed my grandmother? Dirty rat bastard.

He's gunning for you as well.

	14-06-2003 08:51									#62
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Alcohol is perfectly harmless provided you are not an idiot and know how to control yourself, Mr. Speer. I first drank wine with company when I was nine. I am now almost twenty and in fine health except for asthma, which has nothing to do with it. And the French can live forever on like a bottle a day. It's a matter of developing tolerance. Saying liquor is bad for you because of drunks with cirrhosis is like saying food is bad because you know a guy who ate three pounds of bacon a day and got a heart attack. Alcohol is only intrinsically harmful to the stupid. I don't know you so I won't venture an opinion on that subject. Some of my less tactful compatriots seem to have done that already...
BTW, that line was not a recommendation so much as an excuse to quote from a relevant psalm. God's cool with pleasure in moderation.

	14-06-2003 11:22									#63
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"why does it taste so bad?"

OK Mr. Self Righteous, how do you know what it tastes like? Have you really had so much alcohol you can make a general judgement that it all tastes bad.

	14-06-2003 11:45									#64
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It's Speer. Actual experience doesn't matter. How many threads did he start on his "love life?"

	14-06-2003 17:42									#65
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quote: I dont give a **** what Jesus did... alcohol has led to only drunkards and wife beaters...

alcohol leads ******* *** ** **** holes to become wifebeaters, but it can lead to good things too.
But yeah, it is a poison
[homer]
hmmmm..., poison....
[/homer]

	14-06-2003 19:38									#66
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Take heart Vesayan, religion is man's creation. There may be a God, but don't believe anyone if they tell you they know all about God.

	15-06-2003 13:44									#67
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quote: were he to eat the fruit, he'd die instantly. Then Adam does, he doesn't die instantly, and goes on to die at 930 years old.

Boris:



Passage from NIV:

Gen 2:17

"but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

God does not specify that they will die instantly. They do suffer, and die, as they would not have had they obeyed God.

Also, original sin, yes we have a sinful nature and a body that decays because of the sin of Adam and Eve. This is one of the reasons that we suffer today.

Alcohol in moderation is not sinful, although I must admit that I do go to a 'grapejuice' church.

You know, I resent that term, 'grapejuice' church, MtG.
I may even get angry at you drunkard Catholics.



Albert

quote: I dont give a **** what Jesus did

Full stop. There's the root of your problem Albert...

	16-06-2003 10:00									#68
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Boris: Passage from NIV: Gen 2:17 "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." God does not specify that they will die instantly. They do suffer, and die, as they would not have had they obeyed God.

I see your and raise it, considering I've already pointed out my objections to the bastardized NIV. Until you can satisfactorly explain why that interpretation is somehow more accurate than a more direct translation of the Hebrew, I will categorically reject it.

Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.'

Inexplicable rewordings of the text don't fly with me.

	16-06-2003 10:05									#69
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Originally, God did not create the universe with death. Death only began after Man sinned. God gave Adam and Eve free will to choose between the tree of life or the tree of knowledge between good and evil. Adam and Eve could have chosen to eat from the tree of life, and be immortal. Instead, they chose the tree of knowledge. They chose death! Therefore death in the world is our doing not God's.

God knew that Adam was going to "sin," for Yahweh is omniscient, and He did nothing to change it.

	16-06-2003 10:15									#70
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Really, you can't blame God too much, because for us to live forever, everything would have to be perfectly stable down to a subatomic level, and such a universe doesn't provide the necessary type of interactions for us to exist in the first place.

Not necessarily, depending on what "forever" entails. It could mean "until the end of this universe," "until we run out of energy sources," or really forever forever.

	16-06-2003 10:55									#71
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Let's try God for Genicide. He's killed more people then Hitler.

	16-06-2003 23:17									#72
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quote: Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.'

Boris:

I've given you one interpretation, the one I favour.

Here's another,

"Die" means spiritual death rather than physical death. Adam and Eve would be cut off from God the day that they ate of the apple, which Genesis records did happen, just as God promised.

I won't debate the topic of the NIV vs the KJV with you until you promise to accept the portions in where both versions agree. Otherwise, this is a pointless exercise.

	16-06-2003 23:19									#73
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quote: were he to eat the fruit, he'd die instantly.

quote: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.'

Resorting to hyperbole, Boris?

Even your own words do not prove your argument. 'Instantly' is quite different from during the day.