16-06-2003 08:45									#1
	Abortion Quest Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I had a conversation today about abortion, and heard the 'fact' that having an abortion causing damage to the woman. I was skeptical of this remark and decided to find out whether it was true or not. To my frustration, or lack of patience, I couldn't find that information anywhere. While in my quest to find this out, my curiousity expanded to more, wanting to find a list somewhere that could tell me not just that which I've mentioned already, but something that could give me lots of good information in the form of pros and cons. I want to just sorta learn what I can about this ethical controversy.

My solution was to come here.

So, I'm asking anyone who feels like they want to help me to give me the information I'm seeking, in any form you guys can find.

Thanks to anyone who sends me stuff.

	16-06-2003 09:20									#2
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abortion morally hurts the woman. filthy wh0re.

	16-06-2003 09:41									#3
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You cannot find any information because no damage is actually caused.

	16-06-2003 10:10									#4
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Probably depends on the method in which the abortion is performed. When abortions are made illegal, all sorts of methods are used that aren't safe.

	16-06-2003 10:11									#5
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It can cause mental trauma to the woman.

	16-06-2003 10:13									#6
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I'm not a Doctor, but doesn't an abortion (and a miscarriage for that matter), wreak havoc on the hormones and body chemistry for a respectable amount of time?

	16-06-2003 10:24									#7
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by that token, so does hrt, and birth control. as does the removal of the ovaries, and antidepressants.

anything can wreak havoc with body chemistry for a good long time.

that doesn't stop people from using it or thinking that it's a good thing...

abortions these days are performed in sterile conditions, though. which is better, i suppose, than using a coat hanger, or ingesting various poisons to induce a miscarriage.

	16-06-2003 10:34									#8
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I'm sure the old coat hanger trick has to cause scaring. Of course if you go to a real hospital then I doubt there is any long term physical damage.

	16-06-2003 23:26									#9
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quote: the 'fact' that having an abortion causing damage to the woman. I was skeptical of this remark and decided to find out whether it was true or not. To my frustration, or lack of patience, I couldn't find that information anywhere.

Most of the references are to several studies, that I have also referred to in my work. One based in Finland shows women who abort are more likely to commit suicide than women who carry to term, and others that assess psychological reactions to abortion by polling women who have had abortions.

Here are the links that I can find,

http://www.priestsforlife.org/posta...rtionmaster.htm

http://www.abortionfacts.com/PAS/PAS.asp

Both contain lots of links to the studies prolifers cite in favour of Post-abortion syndrome, in one place rather than having to look all over for them.

Hope that helps.

	16-06-2003 23:36									#10
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i'd say the damage is more mental/emotional than physical. i have 3 friends who had that decision to make, 2 of them chose to abort, one chose to have the baby. while, thankfully, no one suffered any physical side effects, the one who had the baby is certainly better off, both mentally and emotionally, than the others.

not that, that is evidence of anything, just my personal experiance.

	16-06-2003 23:40									#11
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A small number of studies have claimed that abortion leads to a small increase in breast cancer risks.

In a straight comparison, however, abortion is less likely to result in death or serious injury than carrying a child to term.

Because of of the moralizing of the anti-women crowd, women who have abortion are very likely to feel guilty about it in our society. This can lead to depresion and suicide. In societies where this moral pressure isn't present, this suicide discrepency doesn't exist. Very simply, people opposed to abortion cause suicide, not the abortion itself.

Botched abortions are indeed very dangerous. This is the number one cause of death in women in Latin America. This is because abortion is illegal in Latin America, and so women must resort to coat hangers, screw drivers, throwing themselves down stairs, poisoning themslves, etc.

Outlawing abortion won't stop abortions, it only stops safe abortions.

	16-06-2003 23:42									#12
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Actually, the following link might be more useful, though it is also from abortionfacts.com:

http://www.abortionfacts.com/effects/effects.asp

This is from a more "pro-abortion" site than the above:

http://www.earlyoptions.org/online_cme/m2expected2.asp

The idea that there are no side-effects from abortion is silly... any medical procedure will have side effects.

	17-06-2003 00:00									#13
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The two best ways to reduce abortions are thorough sex education (not this condoms don't work and abstinence is the only way crap the right has been peddling) and a social network to help woman raise their children.

Before the fall of Communism, some Eastern Europeans had a concept known as the "mother year." A mother of a newborn would receive one year off with pay and get her old job back when she returned to work. Abortion, though legal, was almost unheard of in these countries. Once the mother year went away, abortion rates skyrocketed in these countries.

If the anti-choice movement really wants to do away with abortion, they should push good sex-ed and the mother year.

	17-06-2003 00:00									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed by that token, so does hrt, and birth control. as does the removal of the ovaries, and antidepressants. anything can wreak havoc with body chemistry for a good long time. that doesn't stop people from using it or thinking that it's a good thing... abortions these days are performed in sterile conditions, though. which is better, i suppose, than using a coat hanger, or ingesting various poisons to induce a miscarriage.

Or a liquid vac. :vom:

	17-06-2003 00:16									#15
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or throwing 'em down the stairs

	17-06-2003 00:20									#16
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Failing that, drink lots of gin or you can use the old méthode de cintre de manteau

	17-06-2003 00:32									#17
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quote: Before the fall of Communism, some Eastern Europeans had a concept known as the "mother year." A mother of a newborn would receive one year off with pay and get her old job back when she returned to work. Abortion, though legal, was almost unheard of in these countries. Once the mother year went away, abortion rates skyrocketed in these countries.

Che:



I agree with the mother year, we need to do more to make it easy for women to keep their children.

Any documentation for the effect on the abortion rate of the mother year?

	17-06-2003 00:37									#18
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quote: Because of of the moralizing of the anti-women crowd

	17-06-2003 00:40									#19
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it hurts a woman emotionally

they often feel the pain of doing such an act the rest of their lives

	17-06-2003 00:44									#20
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I'm sorry Che but I can't take your word for it this time.

You aren't a woman, and don't know what it's like having a child inside of you and then killing it.

I'm not anti-abortion, but you have to look at the fact. There is a life growing inside of you, and you kill it.

So you are saying that in a society where killing is looked as wrong, women feel bad about kiling. Imagine that. You're saying that if we lived in a society where killing living things is viewed as acceptable, women would not feel this way. I disagree. Parents are the one's that influence a person's own morals, not society.

That's baloney. There is not stigma associated with abortion in the U.S. Millions are performed each year. It's seen as common place now days.

But don't believe me, I'm a guy. I suggest asking women this question. Because I'm not qualified to answer fully.

	17-06-2003 00:46									#21
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quote: You aren't a woman, and don't know what it's like having a child inside of you and then killing it.

Sig material.

You a woman Dissident?

	17-06-2003 00:47									#22
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No, but I've heard stories from women.

Ask them what it's like.

	17-06-2003 00:49									#23
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Che is married.

Please continue to argue that a man can't say anything about this issue.

	17-06-2003 00:51									#24
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hey that's what the lefties always say

It's a woman's decision. Men have no part of it.

Therefore we should not be talking about this.

	17-06-2003 00:52									#25
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quote: You're saying that if we lived in a society where killing living things is viewed as acceptable, women would not feel this way. I disagree.

quote: That's baloney. There is not stigma associated with abortion in the U.S. Millions are performed each year. It's seen as common place now days.

I don't see how both arguments can stand together. Either society has no influence, or society has some influence. Why is there no stigma for abortion in the US?

	17-06-2003 00:54									#26
	Suffering from ads?

like I said, I can't answer that, I'm not a woman

I'm just looking at the numbers game. Lots of abortions are performed. I'd say it is acceptable behaviour.

	17-06-2003 00:55									#27
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Why does the title of this thread sound like some demented video game?

	17-06-2003 01:31									#28
	Inflate your Upload Space

It's not demented!

abortion is a perfectly natural thing

In fact, this could be a pretty cool web game invovling a coat hanger and a picture of a woman.

I wish I could program computers, this game would make me famous. Imagine how many people this would piss off Pissing people on the internet off is sometimes fun- well most of the time fun.

	17-06-2003 01:32									#29
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quote: Lots of abortions are performed. I'd say it is acceptable behaviour.

Everybody's doin' it, so that makes it acceptable?

What about a girl who grows up in a devout Catholic family? How is she going to feel if she has an abortion?

	17-06-2003 01:35									#30
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so what are you saying? that people shouldn't be catholic?