Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Hypothetical scenario; Terrorists use nukes in the U.S.
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (3): [ 1   2   3   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Vesayen is offline Vesayen
Chieftain

Mar 2002
time: 00:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 23:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Hypothetical scenario; Terrorists use nukes in the U.S. Full PM-box? Change here!

I was reading a book on al-qaeda. The premise was, it's not a question of IF, it's a matter of WHEN they use nukes.

So, let's say they use nukes on NY or Washington.

If in New York, it would cripple our economy. If it Washington, it would decapitate our government.

The questions;

1) Most likely location? New York? Washington DC?

2) What would the response be from the U.S.?

3) What do YOU think our response should be?

My answers;

1) Most like likely location is New York. Wall Street, the U.N., major television networks, banking and dense population.

2) The U.S. would have no choice but to unilaterally declare that only France, Britain, Russia, China and the U.S. could possess nuclear arsenals. We would declare any other States with nuclear weapons capablilities to be rogue states. We'd outlaw the possession of such weapons by rogue states to be a clear and present danger. We'd place our Navy into nuclear attack positions nearest NK, Iran, India, Pakistan. We'd give them a deadline to disarm.

At the same time, we would commence conventional bombings in all major terrorist strongholds. A universal declaration of war would allow strikes into Syria, Iran, northern Pakistan, Sudan. Possibly even Saudi Arabia.

Our troops would be instantly deployed into the Middle East. 500,000 troops would be sent, with another 1,000,000 to follow. We'd slowly take provincial control of all major capitals throughout the region.

The U.S. would have no choice. We could never allow a second attack against a major US city.

3) Threaten every leader in the Middle East; "You have 48 hours to round up every radical and/or terrorist. Put them in military custody. If we don't see instant progress, we will attack with nuclear weapons".








Source: This post is from a mod, Anon on the ACF boards ( http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp...69406&replies=7 I thought it interesting so I re-posted it here).

Last edited by Vesayen on 17-06-2003 at 00:01

Proteus_MST is offline Proteus_MST
Prince

Dec 2001
time: 06:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 01:33
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

1) I believe Washington will be the target. Al Quaeda targeted Buildings with high symbolic value in their last attacks, the Twin Towers, Pentagon, probably the White House (the plane that crashed), whereas a high bodycount didnīt matter so much to them (I think).
As the Attack on the one Symbol succeeded, they would now try to bring down the other two Symbols in the Capital.

2) It will respond with actionism just like they did on September 11th, i.e. trying to find a Scapegoat, a country which has connections to Al Quaeda, isnīt allied with the USA and attack it. I donīt think they will attack any state with a nuclear Arsenal and the Carrier Systems to attack the United States with them.

3) Trying to find out who is responsible for the things, trying to eleminate Al Qaeda by means of Secret Operations (CIA and the like) rather than open military actions.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:00 Visit Dis's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

1) Most likely location? New York? Washington DC?

both if at all possible. But given the choice I have to go with Washington. years earlier it would have been New York. But they realize bringing down the U.S. is a difficult task now. And to do that, they will have to do the ultimate thing. Annhilate most of the U.S. goverment on inaguration day.

2) What would the response be from the U.S.?

Depends on the president. Initially, probably nothing. Especially if there is no excecutive and legislative branches around. There is a small possiblity of some high ranking general launching an attack on the entire middle east. but that seems highly unlikely for several reason. First of all, without the presidential codes I do not think they could launch a nuclear attack, and even witht he codes, the men on the ships, submarines, bombers, and missile control rooms may disobey the orders or sabatoge the equipment. As for a conventional attack, they take a while to stage and organize.

Some presidents may decide to bomb the **** out of most of the middle east terrorist nations conventionally like Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan. But that is unlikely. Most likely would be a response similar to the U.S. action in Afghanistan. We would identify the country where the terrorists are mainly operating from, and then take over that country using any means.

3) What do YOU think our response should be?

nuke the entire middle east including Israel (they are too close to the action, and would be adversely affected either way by nukes- so we'll just nuke em to put them out of their misery ).

P.S. The U.S. doesn't have a million troops! maybe if you include the coast guard. Either way most aren't combat troops.

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
time: 00:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Re: Hypothetical scenario; Terrorists use nukes in the U.S. Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

1) Most likely location? New York? Washington DC?

Not sure. They've put most of their attention on New York, but I suspect they'd want to hit somewhere they havent successfully hit before, especially with New YOrk (and Washington's) defense being pretty high. Maybe the intetended target of the millenium attack that was stopped - LAX (or simply LA)?

2) What would the response be from the U.S.?

If a country was behind it, an immediate attack, maybe by Nukes, maybe by MOAB, maybe by other conventional forces.

If not, maybe the Afghanistan + War on Terrorism x 100.

3) What do YOU think our response should be?

I like your solution.

Also, what if the terrorists have another nuke, and threaten to use it if the US retaliates?

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:22 Visit Dis's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

then we just give in to terrorists? I think not

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:27
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

I think the premise that its only WHEN and not IF Al qaeda will nuke us is absurd.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:28 Visit Dis's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

now you can say that. Because now they have no hope of getting nukes.

What happens in 50 years when everyone has nukes?

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:29 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

Terrorists would be better off learning to not piss into the wind, but of course, they no doubt are counting on the USA's internal whiners to help their cause.

Last edited by SlowwHand on 17-06-2003 at 02:37

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
time: 00:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
then we just give in to terrorists? I think not


I don't think so either, but it's certainly possible it might change the response (or strategy) some how.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:44
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
now you can say that. Because now they have no hope of getting nukes.

What happens in 50 years when everyone has nukes?


If in 50 years Al Qaeda is still around then clearly our little war on terrorism will not have gone too well.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:52 Visit Dis's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't think the war on terrorism is winnable. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 02:58
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So rename it "war against Al Qaeda" then: that is a winnable one.

ixnay is offline ixnay
ACS Staff: 'RoN' Content Editor
I <3 etna, omg disgaea fag
Jan 1970
time: 22:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 03:21 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The terrorists will nuke Denver, when we hold the Super Bowl there.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 03:27
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, another ultimate solution to the problem would be going directly to the source: Al Queda. Tell them that if attacks continue, we will begin using nuclear weapons against the Islamic. Tell them they can count on Mecca and Medina going radioactive.

Obviously not a scenario we want, but if we are faced with a threat to our survival...

Main_Brain is offline Main_Brain
King
Economic World Center
Jul 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 03:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I remember a Site describing Effects of an Atomic explosion in NY.. cant find it but a referre said this:
quote:

A more recent study of the potential impact of nuclear terrorism was published in the British Medical Journal, Volume 324, February 9, 2002. The authors, three members of International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War and Physicians for Social Responsibility, used the CATS (Consequences Assessment Tool Set) software created by FEMA and the Defense Threat Reduction Agency to assess the potential impact of a major nuclear attack. In this analysis, a 12.5 kiloton, ground level nuclear explosion occurs in the port area of New York City. The device is assumed smuggled into port in a commercial shipping container. Here are the findings:

*52,000 people would die immediately of the blast and thermal effects.
*44,000 would suffer radiation sickness. Of these, 10,000 would die.
*Fallout radiation would kill 200,000.
*Fallout radiation would cause "several hundred thousand additional cases of radiation sickness."
*1000 hospital beds would be destroyed. 8700 hospital beds would be in areas of radiation sufficient to cause radiation sickness.
The authors note that even with advanced preparation, outside help to the area would be delayed.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
Moderator
of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 03:50 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

why would they just use one when they could use two at twice the price?

Simultaneous strike on Washington and NYC. Big boom.



-=Vel=-

Demerzel is offline Demerzel
Warlord

Jul 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 03:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by ixnay
The terrorists will nuke Denver, when we hold the Super Bowl there.


hehe and Jack Ryan will save the day as usual.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 03:53 Visit Dis's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

most likely the terrorists would only get a hold of a small kiloton sized weapon. I can't see them getting a hold of megaton sized devices and being able to smuggle it into a city easily. The one exception maybe putting it on a ship and detonating it in a harbour.

It makes more sense to use it on Washington during inaguration day and wipe out congress and the incoming/outgoing presidents and vice presidents. Although I think now days the vice presidents may be elsewhere. We will find out in 2005.

Superbowl in Denver . They'd need a domed stadium for that to happen.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

Donate to the Red Cross
Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 03:59 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
Superbowl in Denver . They'd need a domed stadium for that to happen.


Nahhhhh... just read a Tom Clancy Novel

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

New York.

Nuking New York would cripple America in ways that nuking Washington never could (even jokes about the government notwithstanding) - complete economic chaos. The computers that store banking, stock, etc. information are almost universeally located in NYC - WORLDWIDE. It would take years or decades to fix. While it wouldn't hurt nearly as much our immediate ability to respond, it would end up causing a lot more damage.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

Donate to the Red Cross
Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:13 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

They've learned their lesson from 911. The key information is backed up at another location.

OneFootInTheGrave is offline OneFootInTheGrave
Prince
Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:15
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

1 - Manhattan
2 - nuke back (that means Axis of Evil excluding North Korea)
3 - get the armies out of middle east... and spend billions on destruction of existing nuclear materials, plus potential manufacturing facilities... +the same for serious chemical/bio tech,

anyway as pandoras box is alreay open, it is just a matter of time before some serious **** up happens somewhere along the way

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:21 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

Why excluding North Korea?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:29
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't care if Al Qaeda is a rogue organization or not. But if they nuke any US city... we should make Mecca glow in the dark.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:30
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Why excluding North Korea?
Because NK didn't do anything... DUH!

Unless you want to be responsible for them nuking Tokyo and turning Seoul into dust with artillery.

Lord Merciless is offline Lord Merciless
Warlord
USA
Jul 2002
time: 22:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:42
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I don't care if Al Qaeda is a rogue organization or not. But if they nuke any US city... we should make Mecca glow in the dark.


I didn't expect that from you, Sava.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:
I didn't expect that from you, Sava.


to paraphrase Bill Maher:
"Terrorism is the bratty little teenager living in their [Islamic countries] house. They weren't willing to deal with the problem, so now we have to."

This is my feeling. While I recognize that the Wahabi sect and Al Qaeda types have hijacked Islam, if the Islamic world really wanted terrorism gone, they'd deal with it themselves. If tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of Americans die in a nuclear attack, all bets are off.

Lord Merciless is offline Lord Merciless
Warlord
USA
Jul 2002
time: 22:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

If Islamic terrorists nuke an American city, the war of civilizations begins.

People should expect genocides on a precedented scale and 1984 descending over America.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:48
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

If America gets nuked by someone, I'D join the military.

uh Clem is offline uh Clem
King
Born in the US; damned if I know where I live now
Nov 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 17-06-2003 04:58 Visit uh Clem's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

quote:
I don't care if Al Qaeda is a rogue organization or not. But if they nuke any US city... we should make Mecca glow in the dark.


Hmmmmm...if I were a Likudnik, I'd have to think long and hard about that.

 
Pages (3): [ 1   2   3   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:28.
Apolyton Time is 00:28.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0584 seconds (90.18% PHP - 9.82% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net