21-06-2003 08:39									#511
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Like I said, be proud of what's real, because the USSR had some great ones. But when you boast of stuff that isn't true, you pull the rug out from underneath the real accomplishments.

Oh come on...I just asked a question and recieved an answer from Lonestar. I'm absolutely happy now.

	21-06-2003 09:00									#512
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That's because you couldn't do the same job with less. We didn't build Energia because we didn't need Energia.

No offence, but I seriuosly doubt that you don't need such missile as 'energia' and that you didn't build something equal only because you didn't need it. Now you acting like me when I asked 'why should we send humans on Moon'
And after all, Energia was never armed with nuclear warheads. First of all it created for space exploration. I was talking about missile which only mission was to destroy USA. You guys gave a nice name to this missile- Satan.

quote: The reason our nukes were smaller is because we rely on acuracy. If you can hit your target, you don't need to blow up the entire province to get it.

We have a different startegy- blow the f*ck up the motherf*ckers, eradicate their entire continent. You know, we are evil... a bit.

The end of threadjack.

	21-06-2003 09:01									#513
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Nope. The betrayal of Soviet leadership.

While this is true, if Soviet society weren't so sick, it couldn't have happened. If Soviet society were a healthy working socialist society, the masses would have tossed both Yeltsin and the generals into the Arctic Ocean, followed shortly by Gorbachov.

Revolutions cannot come from above.

	21-06-2003 09:06									#514
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Fair enough. I should have said the betrayal of Soviet elite and slow degradation of Soviet elite (first of all elite, then anyone else) since 70's.

	21-06-2003 09:13									#515
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Kid, admit it, a command economy doesn't work. it is time to regroup and find communal economies that actually work, hence my Syndicalist Communism project.

Out with the old and in with the new!

	21-06-2003 09:15									#516
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quote: Syndicalist Communism project.

What's that?

	21-06-2003 09:25									#517
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quote: Originally posted by Serb What's that?

Corporations
Command Economy
Co-ops

Basically, each bussiness is a democracy where the employees get equal votes of a board of directors and instead of getting a wage the employees get a equal share of the profit.

	21-06-2003 09:27									#518
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I believe a command economy can work if it is democratically controlled, rather than controlled by unaccountable bureaucrats. Market-socialism (which is what Odin is really advocating) would, in the long term, result in the resurrection of capitalism.

That's not to say that all work places should be run as democracies anyway. But the market should be controlled by society, not the other way around.

	21-06-2003 09:30									#519
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I believe a command economy can work if it is democratically controlled, rather than controlled by unaccountable bureaucrats. Market-socialism (which is what Odin is really advocating) would, in the long term, result in the resurrection of capitalism. That's not to say that all work places should be run as democracies anyway. But the market should be controlled by society, not the other way around.

Old-style Communism can't work, it takes too many evenings.

	21-06-2003 09:31									#520
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Fortunately, I don't want old-style Communism.

	21-06-2003 09:37									#521
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How would society as a whole control the economy? Wouldn't would just have the USSR's logistical problems (like buying parts in another town that buying from a store in town).

	21-06-2003 09:45									#522
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Damn it... there is another thread on this... we kinda reached the 500 post limit .

Dirty commies, can't read!

	21-06-2003 09:52									#523
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Absolutely shocking, eh Brother John? Ohhhhh, so it all boils down to corruption. It's funny how communism draws a whole litany of similar lines: *If not for the dictators, communism would work *If not for the corruption, communism would work *If not for the dissenters (who REQUIRE killing, obviously) communism would work. If not for the humans, communism would work, eh? -=Vel=-

This is my main point in all discussions about communism. It inherently is flawed from the outset as it fails to reconcile the baser nature of man. Marxist thinking always assumed that man was evolving to a higher state wherein he would accept needs of the greater good as being paramount. I will never subscribe to that line of thinking as it is always my thought that man will look after his own and immediate family's interests first and foremost.

Maybe Che and I can redo some of our earlier cave man hunter-gatherer comedy schticks for you all.