25-06-2003 00:40									#31
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Screw that, why don't we just give the Settlers the Treat All Terrrain as Roads ability. That would allow them to move 3 squares. Although if I had one more wish it would be for the WORKERS to have the Treat All Terrain as Roads Ability. Course giving Settlers a movement of 2 and Workers the Treat All Terrain as roads ability could allow your Settlers to move six squares............

How about if my third choice mod is stlrs and wlrs treat all terrain as roads.

	25-06-2003 00:41									#32
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Make that rel civs get cheap granaries.

Just make that ALL civs get cheap granaries, ja.

Btw, how cheap is this cheap ?

	25-06-2003 01:20									#33
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quote: Originally posted by OPD How about if my third choice mod is stlrs and wlrs treat all terrain as roads.

I know what a settler is, but what the heck is a wobbler?

	25-06-2003 01:24									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Flandrien Just make that ALL civs get cheap granaries, ja. Btw, how cheap is this cheap ?

Aren't barracks half price for Militaristic civs and Temples/Cathedrals half price for Religious civs?

Then shouldn't Graneries be half price for the appropriate civ?

	25-06-2003 01:30									#35
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I started on the scenario file for the rule changes and ran a couple of starts in debug mode. It all seems to be fine (the uprated barbarians are a challenge but can be dealt with with the units available with the early techs). Just be cautious about popping goody huts if you are not expansionist.

The one change I can't make is cheap granaries for expansionist civs. It seems that only mil/sci/rel civs get cheap buildings and there is no way to give them with the comm/ind/exp traits. So it is cheap (30 shields rather than 60) granaries for all or none.

	25-06-2003 02:18									#36
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I know what a settler is, but what the heck is a wobbler?

It's what dyslexic people call workers.

	25-06-2003 02:31									#37
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV I started on the scenario file for the rule changes and ran a couple of starts in debug mode. It all seems to be fine (the uprated barbarians are a challenge but can be dealt with with the units available with the early techs). Just be cautious about popping goody huts if you are not expansionist. The one change I can't make is cheap granaries for expansionist civs. It seems that only mil/sci/rel civs get cheap buildings and there is no way to give them with the comm/ind/exp traits. So it is cheap (30 shields rather than 60) granaries for all or none.

Granaries for none then 30 sheild granaries would be a bit ridiculous IMO.

I guess this means I get another change then. Is there anyway I could trade my last mod for a good starting location If not then maybe make catapults slightly more accurate?

	25-06-2003 03:22									#38
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV The one change I can't make is cheap granaries for expansionist civs. It seems that only mil/sci/rel civs get cheap buildings and there is no way to give them with the comm/ind/exp traits. So it is cheap (30 shields rather than 60) granaries for all or none.

OPD changed his request to make graneries cheap for Religious civs so problem solved.

	25-06-2003 03:31									#39
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quote: Originally posted by OPD I guess this means I get another change then. Is there anyway I could trade my last mod for a good starting location If not then maybe make catapults slightly more accurate?

You already had three:

quote: Originally posted by OPD 1. Three Civ specific traits instead of two. 2. All a civs traits are optional. ie. I could be English and be industrial, religious and scientific. 3. Expansionist civs get cheap granaries.

You then changed 2 to:

quote: Originally posted by OPD How about if my third choice mod is stlrs(settlers) and wlrs(workers) treat all terrain as roads.

and 3 to:

quote: Originally posted by OPD Perhaps you are right. Make that rel civs get cheap granaries.

Speaking of catapults, what exactly are the stats on the Archers and their 0 range bombard compared with the catapults. A catapult's bombard should do more damage than an Archer's.

	25-06-2003 07:10									#40
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I like the idea of having the English UU as an unmarked unit and privateers as the barbarian ship. I like strong barabarians because they're really not a challenge in the game as it is.

I would like Japan's third trait to be Industrious. Thanks.

	25-06-2003 12:39									#41
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I re-read the rules and this just struck me: what are we going to do with improved ship movement, privateers, man-o-wars etc. on a pangea map?

	25-06-2003 13:48									#42
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Map - Continents should be OK. I think we should go with that. On a huge map the map generator produces more consistent results and (although I have only run a few tests) seems less likely to dump you on a small isolated continent.

I will set privateers as the barbarian ship and also make them available to the players with astronomy.

The longbowman bombard stats are 4.0.1 so they have the same power as a catapult but don't actively bombard. Essentially they get a free shot at a unit attacking them or a stack they are in. I like it because it boosts defence a bit but isn't unbalancing. It represents the attacking unit having to advance through a shower of arrows. The rate of fire is only 1 so it can only take 1HP off an attacker.

	25-06-2003 13:57									#43
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quote: Originally posted by OPD Perhaps you are right. Make that rel civs get cheap granaries. jk

I wasn't serious about this. Cheap granaries would make rel civs too powerful IMO.

	25-06-2003 14:09									#44
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Latest rule changes updated.

Everyone has now chosen their extra trait. I intend to complete the scenario file by the weekend and get the game underway if possible. If you have any final comments, changes or objections please post them ASAP.

Not surprisingly no-one has chosen commercial. Everyone has taken industrious, everyone except me is religious and scientific and militaristic get three takers each. Surprisingly there is only one expansionist. Although we can all build jag warriors there are still advantages to scouts and being expansionist.

	25-06-2003 15:44									#45
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quote: Originally posted by OPD I wasn't serious about this. Cheap granaries would make rel civs too powerful IMO.

So no cheap graneries?!

Then what is your third change going to be?

- You could simply have the total build cost of Graneries reduced to half.
OR
- Wheat resource produces an extra +1 food.
OR
- Settlers could have a movement of 2 (in addition to your giving them the all terrain as road ability)


On the Longbowman, since it is 4.0.1 could we improve the catapult to 6.1.1, it is still less than the cannon's 8.1.1 but makes it a little more powerful than the Longbowman.

With the zero bombard range, how does it bombard? That would mean it has to bombard something in the same tile with it, no?

	25-06-2003 16:09									#46
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb On the Longbowman, since it is 4.0.1 could we improve the catapult to 6.1.1, it is still less than the cannon's 8.1.1 but makes it a little more powerful than the Longbowman. With the zero bombard range, how does it bombard? That would mean it has to bombard something in the same tile with it, no?

The bombard ability with zero range is useful on defense. You stack the Longbowman with a bunch of defensive units and you get an extra shot when they are attacked.

	25-06-2003 16:41									#47
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Granaries are now down as costing only 30 shields. I quite like that as if they were cheap for religious civs I would have been the only one building full cost granaries .

The zero range bombardment just makes the longbowman useful on defence as well as being a cheap attacking unit. It isn't a big change and certainly doesn't unbalance the game. It only works defensively and does not allow longbowmen to bombard adjacent units/tiles. I would be against altering the catapult as that unit has a different role.

	25-06-2003 16:51									#48
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Is that still civ what you guys are playing?

	25-06-2003 18:11									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Is that still civ what you guys are playing?

Civ 3.5

	25-06-2003 20:40									#50
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Civ 3.5

More like civ3 patch 1.22a
(a stands for alpha version, as in 'I hope this works')

	25-06-2003 20:55									#51
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by CerberusIV
Granaries are now down as costing only 30 shields. I quite like that as if they were cheap for religious civs I would have been the only one building full cost granaries .

I was going to build the pyramids straight off aswell.

	26-06-2003 05:06									#52
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Cerberus, how about putting our e-mail addresses in your spare post? Or will you make a new thread for turn posts?

	26-06-2003 13:49									#53
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I will start a turn thread once the game is under way with everything in the rules post and email addresses (suitably altered to avoid spambots) in the initial post of the new thread.

	27-06-2003 02:42									#54
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The scenario file with the rule changes is done. I will check it tomorrow, particularly the revised upgrade paths, and then we are ready to go. I have run through the first few turns in debug mode and it looks like it will be fun , certainly it is different!

We should be underway either Friday evening or Saturday morning (UK time).

Good luck in this game to you all.

	27-06-2003 03:39									#55
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yay cheers Cerburus.

Where are you in the UK? I think I should prob be jsut before/after you in the turn of play.

	27-06-2003 04:10									#56
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Just play the game. I'm in a pbem that set up turn order based on time zones and it been two weeks and we aren't even through the first turn yet.

Time Zone order doesn't do squat. Having people who play their turns, now that speeds up the game.

	27-06-2003 12:06									#57
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Just so we all speak the same language: we are playing PTW 1.21f, right?

	27-06-2003 13:53									#58
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Yes, 1.21f.

Pretty much everyone seems to have moved to 1.21 for PBEM games now.

	27-06-2003 16:27									#59
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1.21. Yay! No more dual install.

	27-06-2003 19:01									#60
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I just thought of something.
If we can all build Greek hoplites, my change to pikemen was not really that necessary.