24-06-2003 19:46									#1
	Americans Back Use of Force Against Iran, Bush Still In Approval Stratosphere Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Americans are still in a martial mood. 56% of Americans support use of force to stop Iran from getting the bomb. I don't know how we could really stop it through use of force, however, other than complete regime change.

Bush's approval is still in the stratosphere @ 68%. Almost as popular as Kennedy on average, I'm guessing.

Another tidbit is that 63% of Americans think the Iraq war was justified, even if no WMD are found.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...ml?nav=hptop_ts

Last edited by DanS on 24-06-2003 at 19:51

	24-06-2003 19:47									#2
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Sooner or later he'll run out of countries to attack.


How's that economy anyways?

	24-06-2003 19:50									#3
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Sooner or later, but not until the task is complete.
He isn't his dad.

	24-06-2003 19:53									#4
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quote: He isn't his dad.

He's dumber

This poll is really quite silly.

"Do you approve of using US forces to prevent Iran from gaining nukes?"

Of course people are going to answer "Yes". I would answer, "Yes". But again, how close are the Iranians to getting a working nuke program? After lying and distorting intelligence that was already sketchy at best to get support for Iraq, I don't trust a damn thing that comes out of the White House.

If you ask me, for a loaded question that should get 100% "Yes" answers, 56% is awfully low.

	24-06-2003 19:54									#5
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I'm still pissed off about the Embassy. Not to mention the Pueblo.

	24-06-2003 19:55									#6
	Re: Americans Back Use of Force Against Iran, Bush Still In Approval Stratosphere Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DanS 54% of Americans support use of force to stop Iran from getting the bomb.

You'd think that if Americans had learned anything about Iranians by now, it's that Iranians don't take well to being pushed around by outsiders. Any use of force against Iran would be a lot bloodier than Iraq or Afghanistan.

I read a very long, detailed post from an Iranian-American on the TrekBBS last year about his month-long visit to Iran (I'll do some digging later and see if it's still present in their board archives; they had a server crash not long after and I'm not sure if that thread survived), and one of the major impressions I got from it, is that Iranians will overwhelmingly unite in opposition to an invading force. An American military intervention there could very well push Iran back toward fundamentalism as a reaction, and that's the last thing anybody wants.

Fortunately there are still many diplomatic cards to be played yet, so military action should still be a long ways off and may not even be required.

	24-06-2003 19:57									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Sava He's dumber This poll is really quite silly. "Do you approve of using US forces to prevent Iran from gaining nukes?" Of course people are going to answer "Yes". I would answer, "Yes". But again, how close are the Iranians to getting a working nuke program? After lying and distorting intelligence that was already sketchy at best to get support for Iraq, I don't trust a damn thing that comes out of the White House. If you ask me, for a loaded question that should get 100% "Yes" answers, 56% is awfully low.

We knew that IRaq had a long history of building WMDs and of hidden programs. We knew that they invaded Kuwait (and most of your pussyass Senate Democrats voted against freeing Kuwait/supporting the president in 1991.) And we know that they kicked the inspectors out of the contry in 1998 and played a cat and mouse don't cooperate game the whole time inspections were ongoing. Saddam deserved to go down. I weep no tears for him.

	24-06-2003 19:57									#8
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quote: Another tidbit is that 63% of Americans think the Iraq war was justified, even if no WMD are found.

Over 50% of America still believes Iraqi's were among the 9-11 hijackers.

I put as much stock in so-called "public opinion" as I do market tips from my cat.

	24-06-2003 19:58									#9
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Sava,
Info on weapons program in Iran coming from IAEA. (Not White House)

Economic leading indicators showing improvement.

	24-06-2003 19:58									#10
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56%. I originally put 54%, but I was mistaken.

	24-06-2003 19:59									#11
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68%? With 200k + troops on the field? I would guess much higher, no?

Over 20% of the people think that WMD's were found, so I must assume that in that 56% there is included a hardcore of about 20% who would support invading China if this amdin. said we had to do it.

As for the war on iraq: no kidding. We are still in a "grace period there". If by next election time there are still more than 100k American troops in Iraq, things will be different.

	24-06-2003 19:59									#12
	Re: Re: Americans Back Use of Force Against Iran, Bush Still In Approval Stratosphere Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by optimus2861 You'd think that if Americans had learned anything about Iranians by now, it's that Iranians don't take well to being pushed around by outsiders. Any use of force against Iran would be a lot bloodier than Iraq or Afghanistan. I read a very long, detailed post from an Iranian-American on the TrekBBS last year about his month-long visit to Iran (I'll do some digging later and see if it's still present in their board archives; they had a server crash not long after and I'm not sure if that thread survived), and one of the major impressions I got from it, is that Iranians will overwhelmingly unite in opposition to an invading force. An American military intervention there could very well push Iran back toward fundamentalism as a reaction, and that's the last thing anybody wants. Fortunately there are still many diplomatic cards to be played yet, so military action should still be a long ways off and may not even be required.

And before the Iraq war, we heard that they would fight in their homeland, that there would be a Stalingrad battle in Kuwait. There was a really funny quote from an Iranian woman who said, "Get moving on Iraq, we want our turn soon."

	24-06-2003 19:59									#13
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quote: (and most of your pussyass Senate Democrats voted against freeing Kuwait/supporting the president in 1991

My senate Dems?

don't make the mistake of thinking I'm a Democrat.

Saddam deserved to go. I agree with this. I just think the price was too high and the timing wasn't right. And I wanted the UN to fit most of the bill, not my tax dollars.

	24-06-2003 20:02									#14
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quote: Originally posted by GePap 68%? With 200k + troops on the field? I would guess much higher, no? Over 20% of the people think that WMD's were found, so I must assume that in that 56% there is included a hardcore of about 20% who would support invading China if this amdin. said we had to do it. As for the war on iraq: no kidding. We are still in a "grace period there". If by next election time there are still more than 100k American troops in Iraq, things will be different.

Given the bi-cameral system, 68% is high in any event.

Regardless of right or wrong, the opinion of the public is likely to drive policy. Especially when it fits into the greater vision of a democratic nad peaceful ME that this President seems willing to impose.

	24-06-2003 20:03									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sava My senate Dems? don't make the mistake of thinking I'm a Democrat. Saddam deserved to go. I agree with this. I just think the price was too high and the timing wasn't right. And I wanted the UN to fit most of the bill, not my tax dollars.

The 1991 war was very touch and go. Bush barely got authorization for it. once it was such a success, the people who voted against it (almost all the Democrats) ran for the hills...

	24-06-2003 20:04									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Sava And I wanted the UN to fit most of the bill, not my tax dollars.

Didn't we all!

	24-06-2003 20:07									#17
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quote: Regardless of right or wrong, the opinion of the public is likely to drive policy. Especially when it fits into the greater vision of a democratic nad peaceful ME that this President seems willing to impose.

This last war has shown that when it comes to foreign policy, public opinion is built after the fact, and does not actually drive anything vis a vi foreign policy, speically at a time when people are inclined to "let the admin. handle it". This admin. will do whatever it thinks best in Iran (not that I trust thier judgement one bit), screw the public. The problem is, given the track record of US intelliegence, I doubt a war with Iran is anywhere in the coming, since it would certainly need the support of the international community (more than the one with Iraq) and right now that ain;t going to happen, even form the Brits.

As I said, if Iraq is still an issue come next election, it will be a general negative for the admin., since Americans expect thier issues to be short and mindless when it comes outside of the US.

	24-06-2003 20:18									#18
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quote: Originally posted by GePap This last war has shown that when it comes to foreign policy, public opinion is built after the fact, and does not actually drive anything vis a vi foreign policy, speically at a time when people are inclined to "let the admin. handle it". This admin. will do whatever it thinks best in Iran (not that I trust thier judgement one bit), screw the public. The problem is, given the track record of US intelliegence, I doubt a war with Iran is anywhere in the coming, since it would certainly need the support of the international community (more than the one with Iraq) and right now that ain;t going to happen, even form the Brits. As I said, if Iraq is still an issue come next election, it will be a general negative for the admin., since Americans expect thier issues to be short and mindless when it comes outside of the US.

Generally I think you are correct. My point is that this post war public opinion could and likely will help drive Iran policy. At this point, international support would be as close to zero as you can come for military action.

While I also agree that Americans like quick solutions on foriegn policy issues, Iraq I believe is different. After a decade of saber rattling and a quick victory, I believe that Americans are willing to accept a fairly long occupation. The administration will need to set benchmarks and obtain them and then handle the press correctly.

	24-06-2003 20:34									#19
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Lets not forget Afghanistan.

Any mention of it in US media lately?

	24-06-2003 20:46									#20
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Sad, sad, but a very interesting revelation of where, we, the American people, are. The wheels of fate continue to turn, a rather interesting time to be alive, indeed.

Look for something big to happen in mid-to-late August.

	24-06-2003 20:52									#21
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Well, being an American I can honestly tell you that:

83% of Americans think that Iraq and Iran are the same country...

	24-06-2003 20:54									#22
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USA! USA! USA!

Go Bush!

And dont forget about Syria.

	24-06-2003 20:57									#23
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Look for something big to happen in mid-to-late August.

Such as?

	24-06-2003 21:16									#24
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Well, July 9 is the next milestone for Iran. The 4th anniversary of the big violent crackdown on student protests.

	24-06-2003 21:22									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Lets not forget Afghanistan. Any mention of it in US media lately?

It gets mentioned every now and then. What is your point? You don't think we should have gone in?

	24-06-2003 23:53									#26
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the attacking part always goes well

we're getting pretty good at taking over countries.

but we should swallow our pride and give them to the U.N. afterwords. Especially Iraq- which is a nightmare. I wouldn't have guessed Afghanistan would be a safer place for our troops than Iraq.

	24-06-2003 23:59									#27
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As for public policy influencing administration police, well the administration is hampered by reality.

Currently we are stretched too thin. There will be no attack of Iran, until we are done with Iraq. We just don't have the manpower.

Last edited by Dis on 25-06-2003 at 00:24

	25-06-2003 00:01									#28
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You dont need to invade them... Just send the 20 B-2s to a couple of bombing runs directed on 5-6 targets and voila.

	25-06-2003 00:10									#29
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Iran's not going to be as easy as Iraq, mainly because the country isn't as divided/oppressed and the geography's much tougher, but obviously the USA would still win such a conflict by sheer force (which won't make it any less unnecessary, hasty and unilateral).

But well, if Bush wants to invade half the Middle East during his term(s), then let him try...just don't complain about the ever present daily/weekly casualties resulting from the subsequent occupation and increase in support for extremism and terrorism among the Muslim population.

EDIT: Just bombing them would pretty much still create some resentment, but certainly less so. That would be the lesser of the two evils.

	25-06-2003 00:15									#30
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We can't, or really shoudn't, do anything to Iran right now. We are way over our quota of Arabs killed this year, and if we kill some more I don't think that the word "Jihad" will be taken with such lackluster as it was in Iraq.