26-06-2003 21:08									#91
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After having seen the site, I have to say that Chrissy Caviar is genuine art - I'd put it under performance art, personally, but it is definitely not something to be dismissed.

	26-06-2003 21:13									#92
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Sometimes people express their art by simply displaying something that has already been created.

It's a way of celebrating it's existance, making you think twice about all the things in life, whether it is a shopping bag, or someone's egg. If that person feels an emotional attachment to that object, then that person may display it as an art form to express the greatness of it's existance. To many non-artists, this sounds ludicrous, but it is in fact an art since it tries to make you think twice about a object (even if it is usually considered stupid like a shopping bag. ).

And that is the emotional grasp that the artist tries to grab from you.

	26-06-2003 21:16									#93
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Is a big pile of crap worth millions?

	26-06-2003 21:19									#94
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If someone buys it for millions of dollars, then apparently that is what it is worth. The glory of capitalism!

	26-06-2003 21:19									#95
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I love my fiance, I think she is priceless. But you will most likely not love my fiance.


Get it now?

	26-06-2003 21:19									#96
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like i said, i'm more willing to accept chrissy caviar as art than rubbish bag.

i can buy the rationale behind chrissy caviar.

	26-06-2003 21:20									#97
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in love your fiance, Sn00py.

	26-06-2003 21:20									#98
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Yeah, that's fine, that's how it is supposed to be.

But you cannot say that Rubbish Bag is not art, all you should be saying is that it is not what you like in art.

The rubbish bag does nothing for YOU.

	26-06-2003 21:20									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer as for bosch... he clearly has technical talent in drawing and painting... but it makes no sense. at least with Durer you could figure it out pretty easy

can you explain to us those Durer drawings you showed us and the symbolism of each one, perchance also its placement?

	26-06-2003 21:21									#100
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Gotta go to work, if you still aren't getting it, I'll be back

	26-06-2003 21:22									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py I love my fiance, I think she is priceless. But you will most likely not love my fiance.

I'd need a pic before I can judge that.

	26-06-2003 21:26									#102
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"like i said, i'm more willing to accept chrissy caviar as art than rubbish bag."

I personally found Chrissy Caviar confounding, intriguing, and amusing... I liked it as a work of art...

However, the rubbish bag seems to me to be simply childish, immature, and in this day and age, redundant. Art like this does not age well (for both physical and artistic reasons). 10 years from now no one will remember it.

For a movie that takes modern art as its subject, one that I think you guys would enjoy, check out "The Shape Of Things".

	26-06-2003 21:55									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Pollock is garbage. It's an insult to real artists like Monet and Picasso to lump him in with them, IMO.

Dali is the best of them all, though.

	26-06-2003 21:59									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer when someone got to decipher a painting, it's not a good sign...

You're confusing art with wallpaper. Under no circumstances must you ever view Holbein's "The Ambassadors".

	26-06-2003 22:01									#105
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Any idea on what the wierd skull at the bottom means, Laz? That confused the heck out of me during my Art history class.

	26-06-2003 22:06									#106
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quote: The rubbish bag does nothing for YOU.

the rubbish bag does nothing for me, correct.

quote: But you cannot say that Rubbish Bag is not art, all you should be saying is that it is not what you like in art.

i consider certain computer games art. however, i'm frequently told it isn't. those same people then turn around and tell me that a plastic bag, which did not involve nearly as much effort, sacrifice, and meaning as said game to make is art.
this is what i take offense at, and this is what i find most problematic of the nature of art today. a sort of snobbery, that some art is art, while the rest is just rubbish for mass consumption--and those of us who don't understand the art art are ignorant imbeciles with no taste.

quote: Yeah, that's fine, that's how it is supposed to be.

if the curator wants to consider it art, that's fine. if the artist wants to, that's fine too. i don't consider it art. on the other hand, i consider the arrangement of my dorm room to be the epitome of installation artwork, but i have yet to publicize it.

	26-06-2003 22:27									#107
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I couldn't resist....

	26-06-2003 22:29									#108
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Certainly a classic. Though isn;t the pic a bit cut off? I though you could also see somehting peaking through the bottom of the curtain, in one of the corners.

	26-06-2003 22:31									#109
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at your first post, Albert... some real cool art from former times and then that piece of crap,

(there's something about satire that I adore...)

	27-06-2003 01:39									#110
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Q Cubed, saying one thing is not art and another is, is like saying that something has no mathematical relation and something else does.

Art is universal, it the essence of everything.

	27-06-2003 01:53									#111
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..

	27-06-2003 01:57									#112
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This is the sort of artwork I prefer in a painting.

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	27-06-2003 02:36									#113
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Yeah - beautiful women make great subjects!

	27-06-2003 02:44									#114
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Monolith:

what is that painting? and is that an Egyptian 'Ud on the table?


GePap:

fine... i'm not very well versed in religion or the bible so i can not tell you everything in the pictures but i'll take the first one and try... even a medieval peasant probably knew more than i do...



the knight is basically the Christian hero; the ideal of man and he looks forward all determined to stay on his path, ignoring the gnarled embodiment of death with its hour glass, as well as the boar-headed devil behind him. i dont know what the dog means (it might just be thrown in for no reason by Durer) but basically, this painting communicates the idea that you should go on forward on the true path with the sins of the devil behind you and though death may always be at your side with its hour glass counting down your days, you must ignore him and continue on.

pretty simple message and technically, it is very well drawn. straight forward allegories

	27-06-2003 03:11									#115
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Or it could mean that the Knight, as amna of war, rides with along with these forces of evil, or perhaps it shows a man of power in his arrogance (with a steed and hound and armor and a sword all to show his power) and how it can not save him. The devil behind him hold the time he has left until death, which the skull in the ground signifies.

No, the message is not simple, and yes, a medeival peasant would be much better versed than us in the allegories. Anyone can appriciate the technical craftmanship of the drawing, but now ecveryone can understand the full meaning, if any.

	27-06-2003 03:24									#116
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GePap:

you got to think of the times and you're talking about Durer a german during the emerging protestant reformation who was obsessed with religious violence (hence all his apocalyptic drawings)

so your two interpretations while yeah they do make sense, do not really fit with Durer or the times. they actually are very good interpretations and i can really see what you're talking about but in the context of the times, i dont think Durer would have been trying to belittle the christian knight.

	27-06-2003 03:28									#117
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the internet has given rise to the greatest exchange of art in history!

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	27-06-2003 03:42									#118
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"in the context of the times, i dont think Durer would have been trying to belittle the christian knight."

Well, that's your opinion. I personally think the age of the knight shown lends more credence to GePaps interpretation #1 - that's the message I take from the art as well. Plus there's a neat little parallel as well - both the knight and satan are riding horses.

You don't think that all people thought the same about the upper classes, do you? Artists have always been known as idelogical rebels!

	27-06-2003 09:12									#119
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Monolith:

no... death is riding a horse. satan is behind him walking.

	27-06-2003 09:54									#120
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So he rides with Death, doesn't he?

The knight (who was a man of War, and hardly ever a big symbol of Christian purity by himself [I can think of any medeival pistures I have seen were a knight is inherently good]) had no symbols of the faith on him. What does he carry on his other hand?

quote: you got to think of the times and you're talking about Durer a german during the emerging protestant reformation who was obsessed with religious violence (hence all his apocalyptic drawings)

And how does this back up your notion? Who do you think was doing all the killings at this time? Armored men in horseback, for one. In a time of geenral war, and armed man would hardly be an obvious symbol of Christ, specially this one? There is no sign of him doing anything about the demon or death, just going with them. And hwta is death counting down to? With his sandclock? Would a good Christian knight fear death (aka, his time running out?)