25-06-2003 21:06									#1
	Hamas Set to Declare 3 Month Truce Increase Your PM Length

I'll post the article in a moment.

My question: will Israel again screw things up with another attack?

	25-06-2003 21:07									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hamas, Islamic Jihad agree to three-month truce


- - - - - - - - - - - -

June 25, 2003 | JERUSALEM (AP) -- Three key Palestinian groups, including the Islamic militant groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad, agreed Wednesday to halt attacks on Israel for three months, a senior official of Yasser Arafat's Fatah faction said.

The official, Kadoura Fares, speaking on behalf of Fatah, said a formal statement about the cease-fire would be made later Wednesday. Fatah also signed the agreement.

According to another Palestinian official, the document outlining the truce terms was signed in Damascus, Syria, by top Hamas leader Khaled Mashal and Islamic Jihad leader Ramadan Shalah. It came after lengthy negotiations between the militant groups and Marwan Barghouti, a leading Palestinian figure in Fatah who is jailed in Israel.

Barghouti signed the agreement on behalf of Fatah, which is headed by Arafat and Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, the source said.

Another militant group, the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, is associated with Fatah.

	25-06-2003 21:10									#3
	Re: Hamas Set to Declare 3 Month Truce Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'll post the article in a moment. My question: will Israel again screw things up with another attack?

Why do you assume that Israel will screw things up? What's with the Anti-Israel bias and presuppositions?

Why not ask: will Hamas again screw things up with another attack? If anyone has consistently screwed up the peace process when it seemed to be moving forward, it has been Hamas with suicide attacks!

Israel is much more likely to keep their part of the agreement. They want peace. Hamas does not!

	25-06-2003 21:13									#4
	Remove this text

I give it 1 week before more people die. Same old thing...

	25-06-2003 21:15									#5
	Re: Re: Hamas Set to Declare 3 Month Truce Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Why do you assume that Israel will screw things up?

Cuz they did last time. No attacks, then Israel drops a few rockets in the middle of a populated town trying to kill someone, and the whole mess erupts again.

The rulers of Israel do not want peace. 1/3rd of their water supply is stolen from the OT. A few hundred murders a year is a small price to pay for water and territorial integrity.


But what ever. Now is time to dance. There's a truce!

	25-06-2003 21:15									#6
	Suffering from ads?

Isn't it obvious that this "cease-fire" is a trick? Hamas does not want peace. They only wants a cease-fire so that their leaders don't get killed. They will use the cease-fire to re-organize, and plan attacks, then when the 3 months are up, boom!

	25-06-2003 21:16									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: My question: will Israel again screw things up with another attack?

Yes. We whacked someone in the Gaza Strip less than an hour ago.

	25-06-2003 21:17									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I give it three days. Hamas does this all the time; declare peace (thinking that Isreal will let it's guard down), goes out on a suicide bomber spree within a few days... If I were Isreal I would tell them to bite it and kick them into the Mediteranian!

	25-06-2003 21:17									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think it's sad that people think that a (temporary!) pledge to stop murdering innocent civilians is something praiseworthy...

	25-06-2003 21:17									#10
	Re: Re: Re: Hamas Set to Declare 3 Month Truce Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Cuz they did last time. No attacks, then Israel drops a few rockets in the middle of a populated town trying to kill someone, and the whole mess erupts again. The rulers of Israel do not want peace. 1/3rd of their water supply is stolen from the OT. A few hundred murders a year is a small price to pay for water and territorial integrity. But what ever. Now is time to dance. There's a truce!

You make me sick! Hamas is going to use this cease-fire to re-organize, and kill scores of innocent people, and you are celebrating?!?! You are disgusting!

	25-06-2003 21:18									#11
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Isn't it obvious that this "cease-fire" is a trick? Hamas does not want peace. They only wants a cease-fire so that their leaders don't get killed. They will use the cease-fire to re-organize, and plan attacks, then when the 3 months are up, boom!

And they actually admit it.

And just to counter my previous post, a suicide bomber and his "operator" were captured today in Israel, they were carrying 10kg of explosives. You wont hear about it on CNN though, since failed attacks dont really indicate an intention to screw up the cease fire.

	25-06-2003 21:21									#12
	Got spare money?

There'll still be bombings, but they just won't take credit for them.

	25-06-2003 21:22									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Never mind what Fatah say. What do the actual groups say?

	25-06-2003 21:22									#14
	Re: Hamas Set to Declare 3 Month Truce Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'll post the article in a moment. My question: will Israel again screw things up with another attack?

as far as i can tell the ceasefire has taken place PRECISELY BECAUSE of the Israeli attacks. The repeated attacks on Hamas leaders are what gave Hamas the incentive to sign.

The attack on Rantissi happened AFTER a Hamas/IJ/AAMB attack on Israeli soldiers, and after Rantissi had rejected the Aqaba summit and the notion of a ceasefire.

	25-06-2003 21:26									#15
	Re: Re: Re: Hamas Set to Declare 3 Month Truce Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Cuz they did last time. No attacks, then Israel drops a few rockets in the middle of a populated town trying to kill someone, and the whole mess erupts again. The rulers of Israel do not want peace. 1/3rd of their water supply is stolen from the OT. A few hundred murders a year is a small price to pay for water and territorial integrity.

Water can be worked out. for the rest, im truely impressed at your ability to read Mr. Sharon's mind - almost as good as rightists who claim to read Mr. Abbas'
mind.

	25-06-2003 21:28									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Is this a cease fire in which Hamas doesn't perform any attacks, or is this a cease fire in which Hamas does not perform attacks against civilians within Israel, but is free to attack settlers, or attack military targets in and out of Israel, while Israel is not allowed to attack Hamas?

quote: a suicide bomber and his "operator" were captured today in Israel, they were carrying 10kg of explosives

Ahh, neither one, I see.

	25-06-2003 21:29									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yeah Hamas doesnt intend for it to last

1. Its only 3 months, not openended
2. Nothing Ive heard about Hamas disarming (as required under the Road Map)

But the idea is that meanwhile Israel withdraws from Gaza back to Sept 2000 control, and some withdrawl from West Bank (probably Bethlehem) where Abbas and Dahlan are strongest. And make improvements to Pals lives that further strengthen Abbas. Then when Hamas comes out shooting again, Abbas is strong enough to take them on.

We'll see.

	25-06-2003 21:45									#18
	Support Apolyton

So in three months Hamas can start killing people again? They must be running low on bombs or something because the last time the spoke their gole was the destruction of Israel. Can you really negotiate with someone whose goal is your ulitimate destruction? Perhaps the only good news is that maybe the PA will have time to build up for the ulitmate task of getting rid of Hamas. That is if they truely intend to do this.


Maybe we can negotiate with al quida now.

	26-06-2003 00:56									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hamas only agree to this because they are hardly pressed. Israel shouldn't give them any slack.

	26-06-2003 00:59									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* I think it's sad that people think that a (temporary!) pledge to stop murdering innocent civilians is something praiseworthy...

well said

	26-06-2003 01:00									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Have the Hamas broke the truce yet?... just wondering, it has been a while (at least for them)...

	26-06-2003 01:03									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

oh who cares... Hamas spokesman to Ynet, israel's leading news resource: "We'll take the time to regroup".

Until someone in the PA would actually move their asses against Hamas, I don't see an end to this.

	26-06-2003 01:05									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Israel should start negotiating with the terrorists, and not with the pointless middleman that is the PA.

	26-06-2003 01:10									#24
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Hamas Set to Declare 3 Month Truce Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat You make me sick! Hamas is going to use this cease-fire to re-organize, and kill scores of innocent people, and you are celebrating?!?! You are disgusting!

Ah, so instead we should just watch even more bombings and retaliations and shootings and rockets and more death and destruction.

To hell with you. A three month truce is three months of relative peace. I'll take a three month break from war over constant war anyday.

	26-06-2003 01:10									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Hamas only agree to this because they are hardly pressed. Israel shouldn't give them any slack.

Obviously Hamas will use the time to regroup. So it becomes a race between Hamas regrouping and the Abbas-Sharon peace process.

Its in that context that the Israeli hits on Hamas should be seen - not as guevera says, an attempt to undermine the ceasefire, but rather as an attempt to prepare for it.

Remember October 1973? Sharon commanded Israeli forces on the west (far) side of the Suez canal. The UNSC was pressing towards a ceasefire. ISTR that Sharon used the time to rush towards surrounding an egpytian army - the US and the USSR came close to a big confrontation as the US tried to give Israel more time. Army ended up surrounded, giving Israel a post war bargaining chip, that helped in negotiations that led to egyptian "non-beligerency".

I think thats what hes doing now - go after as many Hamasniks as possible before the inevitable ceasefire goes into effect, so that Hamas will be set back going into the three month race.

Now that would, of course, benefit Abbas as well. But of course hes not going to say so in public.

	26-06-2003 01:13									#26
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hamas Set to Declare 3 Month Truce Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Ah, so instead we should just watch even more bombings and retaliations and shootings and rockets and more death and destruction. To hell with you. A three month truce is three months of relative peace. I'll take a three month break from war over constant war anyday.

depends whether the three month break leads to a situation no worse than the current - if Hamas can use the break to become stronger, this may not be a good idea. Abbas and Bush, however clearly think they can make enough progress in three months to offset Hamas's gain. Sharon may agree, or he may simply realize he cant defy Dubya Iraqicanus, and so is making the best of it.

	26-06-2003 01:16									#27
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sandman Israel should start negotiating with the terrorists, and not with the pointless middleman that is the PA.

actually sandman, ive seen some people on the right question what Abbas brings to the table in this - I think its easier for Hamas to make concessions to him, than directly to Israel - he's a fig leaf for a Hamas surrender, from that point of view. and of course hes in a better position to press Europeans and Arabs to back off from supporting Hamas.

	26-06-2003 01:18									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Sandman Israel should start negotiating with the terrorists, and not with the pointless middleman that is the PA.

Israel's already tried negotiating with Arafat.

	26-06-2003 01:19									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I have no sympathy for the Hamas butchers, but Israel has a nasty habit of trying to kill them with rockets while they are surrended by crowds or in buildings full of sleeping children. Israel's methods were clearly provocative, even if their initial targets were legitiamte.

	26-06-2003 01:19									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Che, Hamas is a bunch of evil murders. They are totally untrustworthy. This is so silly. You are so silly.