01-07-2003 07:44									#1
	Violence against women- is it ever OK? Remove this text

Apolyton's favorite frog, Spiffor, recently posted something that caught my interest on another thread:

quote: Society has changed. Especially in Finland, women have now the same rights as men. It includes the right of being hit like a man. There is something worng in hitting defenseless people. There is something wrong in hitting innocent people. There is nothing wrong in hitting strong and violent people - the gender is irrelevant.

This was on Pekka's: Evil, Evil Girlfriends thread.

Now, this is something that has interested me as it is part of a societal phenomon regarding old societal traditions about women and chivalry. Traditionally, women have been seen as the weaker sex, and so they were given limitations in what they could do in their life, what careers they could go after, their family roles, and they were expected to submit to their husband. Some protections came with the old ways to- men were expected do most of anything regarding strength, open doors for women, always treat women with more courtesy and respect, etc. It seems in modern society, most of the negative societal beliefs and customs regarding them, as in those limiting them, have died off, whereas many of the entitlements of an earlier era survive today. But it seems the one that has survived the strongest in many parts is that hitting a woman is absolutely taboo.

I have wondered if someday the parts of chivalry that give women special priviliges will die along with their restrictions. So what does Apolyton think? Is it ever Ok to woman? As Spiffor says, does equal rights mean equal rights to be hit? Or does still make you a villain of the worst kind to ever hit a lady?

	01-07-2003 07:53									#2
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Let me be the first to say it: self defense, of course.

	01-07-2003 07:54									#3
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I think it's OK it the female is a really nasty person - I saw the thread and the name "Rosemary West" just popped into my brain.

Scarily nasty person that.

	01-07-2003 07:55									#4
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****! I didn't make a multiple choice. Can a moderator fix this? Ah well, either hold off on your vote or vote the lowest option you agree with, ignoring the banana option

Just post your answers here for now.

	01-07-2003 08:01									#5
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"Getting hit" is not a right. "Rough sex" is.

	01-07-2003 08:06									#6
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Self-defense or that of another, certainly. If she's an enemy soldier in combat and it's her or me or a comrade of mine, the ***** is going down!!!

Otherwise, never. But the same answers go for men as well.

	01-07-2003 08:07									#7
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hitting a woman is always wrong

	01-07-2003 08:11									#8
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger "Getting hit" is not a right. "Rough sex" is.

Yeah Shi, you forgot a "(consensual) rough sex" option in the poll. That's certainly acceptable, as is self-defense.

	01-07-2003 08:14									#9
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I don't think violence is ever justified.

Even in self defense. If a woman hits you and tries to kill you, you should leave. There is never any circumstance in which you should hit a woman.

	01-07-2003 08:15									#10
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Here's the list of choices I would have chosen if you hadn't messed up.

It's ok, if there is a danger of her doing very serious harm to herself or others
It's ok, if done is self defense of yourself or another
It's ok, if she is a very nasty person
It's ok if she cuts off your banana

All of these are cases where violence is either imminent, has already happened, or is well deserved.

	01-07-2003 08:19									#11
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nice to see how me and dissident are the only moral people here when it comes to this matter...

	01-07-2003 08:20									#12
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Don't be a twit, Speer.

	01-07-2003 08:25									#13
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Same as men... self-defense only. But even then, depending on the person, I would take careful measures.

	01-07-2003 08:27									#14
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Albert, go look up who Rosie West is, OK?

EDIT:

http://stopabuse.org/WEST.html

Last edited by Cruddy on 01-07-2003 at 08:33

	01-07-2003 08:27									#15
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I don't think it's ok to hit a woman. But I don't make a big fuzz about it either. If woman attacks first, to me it is justified for self defense. But only if the situation is threatning. Otherwise if the woman is small and not having weapons and the man is relatively strong and knows his stuff, then hitting is not OK, he should use only necessary force to protect himself and calm her down.

But then again if a full grown man who has done little boxing etc in his youth, he can literally trash a small womans face with one hit so.. I don't think that's justified. Then again I don't think women can hit men either. I think in some situations men can hit men with full force, but that's in self defense.. and if both are defending, then they wouldn't be hitting each other .

So no.. I don't think men should be hitting women, but it goes as strongly to women not hitting men too.

However if the woman is carrying a weapon like a knife and you don't know this woman and even if she is small, I think man should not be expected to 'be nice'. In this situation I expect the man to make the first move and make her visit few doctors and some sort of specialists.
If the weapon is not deadly, but can do serious damage likje let's say baseball bat, I expect the man to do the first move, but not beat her up when she's down. Just what it needs to get the thing back under control. So, in clear self defense I think it's ok. But other than that.. not really.

But I'm not one of those persons that feels the urge to be the knight and whip some guys butt because he slapped a strange woman in the streets, and it doesn't concern me and he stops right there and doesn't continue hitting. I'll just give 'what a butthole' look, but it's none of my business if no one is seriously hurt.
If I know the woman, then I'd step in, but that's a different story.

	01-07-2003 08:32									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer nice to see how me and dissident are the only moral people here when it comes to this matter...

err yeah, moral

	01-07-2003 08:34									#17
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Diss, I hope you come to your senses when woman tries to kill you and you could settle it with hitting but you choose to walk away but fail to do so.

	01-07-2003 08:37									#18
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Let's put it this way. Between AS and me, one of us is trolling.

You guys should know I think all women are the spawn of satan.

	01-07-2003 08:39									#19
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Stereotyping Diss. Evil lives within us all.

	01-07-2003 08:40									#20
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I'm a saint. There is not evil within me.

	01-07-2003 08:46									#21
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Diss, I knew it all the time.. I recieved those pictures of you beating all the little girls that were trusted to you for daycare..

	01-07-2003 08:50									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer nice to see how me and dissident are the only moral people here when it comes to this matter...

Speer holds open the door to the bank for Bonnie Parker:

	01-07-2003 08:57									#23
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According to Ming, this can't be fixed. Just use the options on the poll as a guide and post your beliefs, we don't really need a poll.

	01-07-2003 09:38									#24
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Albert Speer:

quote: hitting a woman is always wrong

Take this as a hypothetical then. You are married with children. You come home from work one day, and you find that a crazy woman hooked on drugs has broken into your house. Just as you enter in, the woman snaps and starts rushing towards to your three old son with a knife. You have a gun, do you use it?

I know this an extreme case, but you used the word "Always"

	01-07-2003 09:43									#25
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If I were married and my wife was beating my kid, I would use violence against her. I'd use a whole lot of violence.

And of course in the case above, I'd use violence to protect my family.

And I may also use violence in the case that I'm unable to tell if it is a man or woman.

also if a woman kicks me in the balls, she is going to get hit real ****ing hard. I don't play games with that ****. Getting kicked there can make you sterile and unable to have kids. If a woman does anything painful to my genitals she is going to get hit real hard.

I may also hit a woman if she was doing something violent to someone other than my family.

But I'm not a real big person, so I'd probably run away before I ever hit a woman. They'd probably kick my ass . In that case I'd shoot a woman before I hit a woman.

Last edited by Dis on 01-07-2003 at 09:49

	01-07-2003 11:38									#26
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I agree with me (my quote in the first post). Equal rights mean equal rights to be hit.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a violent person. I use violence very rarely, and that should continue. However, if I am threatened of physical harm, I can become overly defensive, prone to violence. And I have no qualm being as violent towards women than towards men.

A kick in the nads or a stab is always as harmful, whether the culprit has balls or not.

To me, violence should be used rarely. But when it has to be used, there should be no discrimination made on the basis of sex.

	01-07-2003 11:41									#27
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I must take exception to this equal rights bit though.

men and women's bodies are not equal

women's bodies are not subject to the abuse of a man's body. A woman boxer just died recently. She just dropped dead. They can't handle that kind of abuse to the head. And she was only being hit by another woman with gloves on. Imagine her being hit by a guy.

Women should not be treated equal to men.

Yes I purposely worded that sentence that way. I like to be quoted in people's signitures . You can count on me to say outrageous things.

	01-07-2003 11:41									#28
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Who voted

"Hitting a woman is more OK then hitting a man"

	01-07-2003 11:46									#29
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Many people here are assuming women, all women, are inherently weaker than men. To beign with, that is not true, there is a range, so there are plenty of womne physically tougher than plenty of men. Are women on average weaker? certainly, but if the problem here is "hitting someone who is 'weak'", then it must apply to weak men as well, if the issue is just 'the strong' vs the weak.

Violence is almost never the best way, but if violence is the way, the sex of the opponent makes no difference.

	01-07-2003 11:50									#30
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I'd hit anybody if necessary for self defense. I only start fights with those who can fight back, though. Most women couldn't take on a 13 year-old boy. I don't fight them either....