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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:29
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A little unclear what you are trying to increase: the bonus payment from caravan delivery or the ongoing trade route arrows?
The AI city is on another continent/island, right?
Have you checked the threads in the Great Library about Trade, especially Samson's excellent Calculating Caravan and Freight Delivery Payments? The basics are the number of trade arrows in each city, but things like distance apart, whether the commodity is in demand, tech "age" and key improvements can change the bonus payment modifiers. Monarchy gives a few more trade arrows in a city working trade specials, but the AI often overlooks trade specials in favor of food and shields. Republic is a big boost, if the AI can keep out of disorder. I usually figure on only one trade arrow per citizen in AI cities. Try to maximize the number of trade arrows in your city (just before you deliver the caravan, switch all your workers to the highest-trade tiles, then switch them back after delivery). Adding extra citizens, even if they have to switch to entertainers to keep out of disorder, can pay off because you can switch them to work trade tiles during the delivery and switch back to entertainers afterwards. Make sure you have roaded any trade specials as well.
If you are going for a bigger delivery bonus payment, consider another city further away, even if it is smaller.
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:29
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Samson at one point said he was working on that too, but I never saw a result posting. Start with his Delivery Bonus thread and test the different parts he listed. There may be a special condition on Airports, as they do not seem to change things if they are domestic and on the same continent. It might have to do with having SuperHighways in the same city too.
I have also noticed that a lower-valued domestic route will occasionally bump a higher-valued foreign route, so I suspect that the "top 3" decision is based on raw number of trade arrows in both cities BEFORE the multipliers are factored in.
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Sore Loser
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Aarhus, Denmark
Sep 2003
time: 06:29
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Were the dividing oceans created or removed with the cheat menu? I believe I've read somewhere that this kind of changes doesn't affect the game's understanding of continental status, but I'm not sure...
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Zenon
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Sirsnuggles, that is also my experience. Continents affect the delivery payement, not the trade route. What I am missing in this thread is the mention of the road and railroad bonus, the earliest way to improve trade routes.
Zenon
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Thoddy
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Hannover, Germany
Jan 2001
time: 06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by sirsnuggles
The only trade-route penalty pertains to trade routes between cities of the same civ.
Airports add 50% (to the base) if they are present in both cities.
Superhighways are like the way Samson described them in his bonus post (they can effectively double the trade route). They increase base trade, and then increase trade route by another 50%.
It does not matter whether a caravan or freight initiates the route.
There is one odd anomaly that I've noticed, but you'll have to wait for that.
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dont forget additional effects of road/railroad on the optimal path between cities if distance is less than 22 tiles. use partisans to check the optimal path.
If the optimal path is blocked somewhere by an opposing unit this additional effect will vanish.
And what about the effects of corruption: Gouvernments, Courthouse and road/railroad on optimalpath to capital if distance city-capital is less than 22 tiles.
Keeping this in mind gives you some additional trade-arrows in the earlier game.
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Thoddy
dont forget additional effects of road/railroad on the optimal path between cities if distance is less than 22 tiles. use partisans to check the optimal path.
If the optimal path is blocked somewhere by an opposing unit this additional effect will vanish.
And what about the effects of corruption: Gouvernments, Courthouse and road/railroad on optimalpath to capital if distance city-capital is less than 22 tiles.
Keeping this in mind gives you some additional trade-arrows in the earlier game. |
Partisans dont show up in "the earlier game", but Explorers are a good substitute. It has to be something that gets that special "all terrain treated as roads" status, otherwise it will deviate for nearby river systems.
Best way to prevent path blocking is getting an alliance with the destination civ.
Corruption is difficult to factor in, partly because we often make the SSC the capital or move the Palace there ASAP.
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:29
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Some other issues with partial solutions related to Trade Routes:
- What the game uses to decide which route to keep or replace when you already have 3 routes;
- How the game treats TRs on flat maps when "wrapping the date line" is shorter than the other direction.
I have seen anomalies with both issues in recent play.
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Thoddy
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Hannover, Germany
Jan 2001
time: 06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Elephant
Some other issues with partial solutions related to Trade Routes:
- What the game uses to decide which route to keep or replace when you already have 3 routes;
- How the game treats TRs on flat maps when "wrapping the date line" is shorter than the other direction.
I have seen anomalies with both issues in recent play. |
The game checks trade routes at the beginning of every turn and also if you open the city window. It checks all routes from this city to other cities and all traderoutes from other cities to this city. So normally more than 3 routes has to be checked.
The 3 best routes will be identified and they replaces less efficient ones displayed in the city window.
Trade routes over the dateline loose their road and railroad bonuses even the distance is less than 22 maybe 24 tiles.
the calculation is buggy. 
Last edited by Thoddy on 27-10-2003 at 13:44
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Zenon
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quote:
When additional trades are made, the existing routes of any city will not be replaced unless the base trade of its newest trading partner is greater than that of the base trade of one or more of the cities used to establish the existing routes. |
This statement is from Solo´s EL Guide and consistent with my experience. It is the Base Trade without trade bonus (qualified road, railroad, foreign) that determines which trade route is applied or replaced. That is the reason why it is relatively easy to replace a high valued foreign trade route (+100% bonus) with a lower valued trade route from an own city (no bonus). AI cities usually do not have a good trade base.
Zenon
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:29
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That's my thinking as well.
Here are my "working" results on Trade Routes. These borrow heavily from Samson's work on Delivery Bonuses; I am assuming that similar algorithms are applied in the same order. Most of these I have verified in at least three games; I implore others to test these formulas in current games and report anomalies back to this thread.
NOTE: All calculations are Civ2 Integer Math: after multiplying or dividing, drop any remainder; there is no "rounding".
BASE TRADE ROUTE:
TR=(T1+T2+4)/8
T1,T2="Base" Trade of city terrain, subtract TRs (does include Colossus, SH, Rep/Dem or WLTKing/Comrade/HighPriest)
The Base Trade number is used when a city has three existing trade routes and an extra route is completed (either direction). Only the three routes listed are checked; other cities may have routes TO the city without a reciprocal route back. Routes with the three cities with the highest Base Trade are kept. If two are the same, the oldest is kept.
NOTE: If you have lucrative routes to an AI city that depend on using Multipliers, reducing your domestic city's Base Trade under that of the AI city will allow the route to be one-way and not disturb the foreign routes.
MULTIPLIERS:
*(NO MapSize Multiplier)
*(NO Different Continent Multiplier)
* -50% if both cities are Same Civ
*(NO Freight Multiplier)
*(NO Demand Multiplier)
*Transport (add together before multiplying):
...+50% for KeyRoad From SourceCity To DestCity (alternative: StationCity; limit: 22 tiles), or
...+100% for KeyRR From SourceCity To DestCity;
...+50% for SuperHighways in Source city (increases BaseTrade too);
...(NO +100% for SuperHighways in both cities, just BaseTrade increase);
...(No +50% for Airports in both cities, same continent);
...+50% for Airports in both cities, different continent (down from 100%).
*(NO AgeModifier)
Last edited by Elephant on 28-10-2003 at 02:14
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Scouse Gits
quote:
The 3 best routes will be identified and they replaces less efficient ones displayed in the city window.
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This in my experience is false! Oftimes a local route will displace a more lucrative foreign trade in the middle to late game
Stu |
This has been my experience as well. In particular, I remember a number of times when a domestic route was not replaced despite converting all the workers in the source city to elvii. (I hope I have correctly understood the way of calculating base trade.) I will try to find some examples to post.
RJM at Sleeper's
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01-07-2003 14:47
Then I cheated their size to 30 but still no change 
it will then enjoy Republic trade and so your deliveries and on-going trade benefits will increase accordingly!
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