04-07-2003 00:55									#121
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Its not, but its my opinion and I'll be chewing icicles in hell before I stop speaking it. For me, mine is more valid, for someone who would adopt it or others, its equally valid, so its up to them to judge.

Close-minded oppressor!

	04-07-2003 01:15									#122
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quote: Close-minded oppressor!

shhh!! You'll wake up the people who think I'm an enlightened liberal!!

	07-07-2003 04:31									#123
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Update: Asylum Accepted!

******************
Taylor calls for peacekeepers in asylum deal


Last Updated Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:18:56
MONROVIA - Liberian President Charles Taylor has accepted an offer of asylum, presented to him Sunday by Nigerian President Olusegun Obasanjo.


Liberian President Charles Taylor

Taylor went to the airport in Monrovia to greet Obasanjo and hear his offer of a temporary haven until he can find permanent exile in a third country.

Calling Obasanjo his "big brother," Taylor thanked the Nigerian leader, but offered no timetable for leaving.

Taylor said his exit must be orderly and he wants an an international peacekeeping force sent to his West African country.

In early June, a joint tribunal of the United Nations and the government of Sierra Leone indicted himr for war crimes and crimes against humanity during Sierra Leone's decade-long civil war.

Taylor is a former rebel who started a civil war in Liberia that cost 200,000 lives in the 1990s. He won elections in 1997, but his former enemies launched a military campaign in 2000 to force him from office.

The Liberian president is in the capital Monrovia surrounded by hundreds of rebels from the Revolutionary United Front.


Written by CBC News Online staff

***********************************
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/07/06/liberia030706

Whaddaya think?

	07-07-2003 04:44									#124
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This is looking very good . But I'll wait for Taylor to actually leave Liberia before rejoicing this time.

	07-07-2003 04:46									#125
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He might as well just told the UN to "Suck it!" wrt thier plan to put him on trial.

	07-07-2003 05:46									#126
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I think we should stay out, but I don't know that much about it and will support the president. Including recall if it comes to that (highly doubt that).

	07-07-2003 06:40									#127
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It just makes me question what is so different this time versus when Reagan was faced with a very similar situation in Liberia and stood by while the country descended into chaos.

The realists seem to be pushing intervention and the neocons aren't. Very odd situation. Powell is putting some of his prestige on the line too. Maybe Bush is doing this to stick by his guy.

	07-07-2003 06:43									#128
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quote: The realists seem to be pushing intervention and the neocons aren't. Very odd situation.

Really? That is strange then. You'd think the neocons would jump all over this situation.

	07-07-2003 06:44									#129
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quote: Originally posted by DanS It just makes me question what is so different this time versus when Reagan was faced with a very similar situation in Liberia and stood by while the country descended into chaos. The realists seem to be pushing intervention and the neocons aren't. Very odd situation.

I had this discussion with my roomie in 1992, when Bush went into Somalia. He (a leftist) said that it was the first good thing that Bush had done. I said that i had a bad feeling about it. I think I was right.

	07-07-2003 06:47									#130
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Maybe the recent successful examples of Sierra Leone and Ivory Coast, along with the fact that local countries are stable enough to do most of the grunt peacekeeping work, made the US admin reconsider.
After all, the rewards are quite some internaltional prestige and a stable grateful country with some resources, while the cost is nearly zero.

	07-07-2003 06:49									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Maybe the recent successful examples of Sierra Leone and Ivory Coast, along with the fact that local countries are stable enough to do most of the grunt peacekeeping work, made the US admin reconsider. After all, the rewards are quite some internaltional prestige and a stable grateful country with some resources, while the cost is nearly zero.

I think we should let the Belgians handle it. Why is it up to Uncle Sugar?

	07-07-2003 06:50									#132
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Maybe the realist want to use it as a way to mend fences with many after the whole Iraq deal, while the neocons could give a rats ass about fences or mending anything.

	07-07-2003 06:53									#133
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quote: Originally posted by GP I think we should let the Belgians handle it.

The Belgians should have handled the Congo if we're going to bring history into this.

quote: Why is it up to Uncle Sugar?

Going along with you bringing the Belgians into this, we have more history with the place.

	07-07-2003 06:53									#134
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Who is the enemy? Why are we attacking? Who are we attacking? I just don't get it. And the idea that we should get involved because it would smooth fences has got to be the worst, I've ever heard.

	07-07-2003 06:59									#135
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GePap: Nahhh. I don't think that's it. The neocons probably don't want to be associated with failure in a sh!thole country. Whatever can be said about this, Liberia isn't going to end up as a first-world democracy. Nor is it going to end up as a terrorist training ground. The US needs to make sure it chooses its shots, otherwise public support doesn't follow.

I think Africa is a personal interest of Powell's. A couple of months after 9/11, Powell spent a good half hour meeting with somebody I know about peace talks and lining up USAID assistance to Sudan. He seemed on-task too. Of course, he is robo-secretary, so maybe that's no indication. But I found it amazing.

	07-07-2003 06:59									#136
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Attacking? Who's attacking? It would just be nice to have a military presence to make sure there's no sudden coups or whatnot, and maybe throw in a few advisors to smooth over the transition into a new democratic republic.

	07-07-2003 07:01									#137
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Well, if that's all that's involved, why do we need the heavies?

	07-07-2003 07:01									#138
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quote: Originally posted by GP Who is the enemy?

Potential troublemakers from either the loyalists or the rebels, who want a too big part of the pie.

quote: Why are we attacking? Who are we attacking?

This is not precisely an attack with a declared enemy. This is rather to ensure stability as the power passes from Taylor to whomever will lead Liberia after that. The aim is to have a stable Liberia whose leadership owes to the US. It would strengthen US presence in Africa, and help to get a hold on Liberia's resources.

	07-07-2003 07:01									#139
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By heavies, I mean the US. The reason people want us is cause they know that we have forces out the ass and a tendancy to use em...

	07-07-2003 07:01									#140
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And the idea that we should get involved because it would smooth fences has got to be the worst, I've ever heard.

I agree.

By heavies, I mean the US. The reason people want us is cause they know that we have forces out the ass and a tendancy to use em...

Again, I agree.

	07-07-2003 07:05									#141
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quote: Well, if that's all that's involved, why do we need the heavies?

More weight to the peacekeeping. It looks better when the US is in charge, because lord knows how crap the UN is.

	07-07-2003 07:06									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor quote: Originally posted by GP Who is the enemy? Potential troublemakers from either the loyalists or the rebels, who want a too big part of the pie. quote: Why are we attacking? Who are we attacking? This is not precisely an attack with a declared enemy. This is rather to ensure stability as the power passes from Taylor to whomever will lead Liberia after that. The aim is to have a stable Liberia whose leadership owes to the US. It would strengthen US presence in Africa, and help to get a hold on Liberia's resources.

Just tell me who to kill. should we disarm both sides and take over or are we supporting one side or other. No biggy. Just tell me what you want done...

	07-07-2003 07:09									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Well, if that's all that's involved, why do we need the heavies? More weight to the peacekeeping. It looks better when the US is in charge, because lord knows how crap the UN is.

No they're not!! They were so ready to force Saddam to abide by his cease-fire terms. Err...well...no.

	07-07-2003 07:09									#144
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quote: Originally posted by GP By heavies, I mean the US. The reason people want us is cause they know that we have forces out the ass and a tendancy to use em...

Not only that. The UK was asked to act in Sierra Leone. France was asked to act in Ivory Coast. France was also asked to act in Congo.
If the US is called this time, despite Africa not being its usual playground, is because the ties between the US and Liberia aren't only historic. The US is the most likely power to have a few "Mr. Liberia" with power, people who have big informal relation networks within the country, and who have an understanding of the Liberian particulars.
Had it happened in Ghana or Togo, the US wouldn't have been called in, because these countries do not belong to the irtraditional sphere of influence, and as such the US doesn't have the most dense networks and informations there.

	07-07-2003 07:11									#145
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quote: Originally posted by GP Just tell me who to kill.

We don't know yet, and we don't know if there will be any need to kill at all. Your mere presence may be enough to avoid a new burst of violence.

	07-07-2003 07:16									#146
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All I have to say, is that we better have some heavier forces this time and real political support. I don't want to see our boys dragged through the streets of Monrovia.

	07-07-2003 07:17									#147
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I say once a year there should be a day when the world gets together in a 6 billion person, worldwide mass orgy we can call it Orgy Day.

	07-07-2003 07:18									#148
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quote: Originally posted by DanS All I have to say, is that we better have some heavier forces this time. I don't want to see our boys dragged through the streets of Monrovia.

Indeed. But for now, the American intervention seems to enjoy a high popularity. Except if there is a major political blunder they shouldn't suffer from anthipathy until the Nigerians take their place.

	07-07-2003 07:18									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman I say once a year there should be a day when the world gets together in a 6 billion person, worldwide mass orgy we can call it Orgy Day.

	07-07-2003 07:21									#150
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Indeed. But for now, the American intervention seems to enjoy a high popularity. Except if there is a major political blunder they shouldn't suffer from anthipathy until the Nigerians take their place.

You've got 10 year old government soldiers fighting while high on coke. This won't be a lovefest.