03-07-2003 00:15									#31
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Two reasons. Cruise missiles cost a lot of money individually, whereas AFAIK they're talking about bombs (though the craft that delivers them may be expensive, that's a one-time cost). Second, it's NOT just for fixed sites. They could be laser- or interia-guided bombs (inertia-guided use GPS).

	03-07-2003 00:17									#32
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Dropped from such an altitude that the kinetic force greaty magnifies the stike?

Anyway, you would still need someone pointing a laser at the target, or to send the GPS cordinates (unless this is now all done by satelite). That still speaks of forward basing of some sort.

	03-07-2003 00:23									#33
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Getting the coords? Can be done by satellite (and quite easily, too).

Pointing a laser at the target? Can be done by the drone, or a satellite (though we would have to launch one).

	03-07-2003 01:07									#34
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coolass idea.

	03-07-2003 01:13									#35
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So now bomber pilots are gona be fat, smelly geeks, with lots of dandruff, and have food stains on their clothes surounded by cans of Jolt a Cup O'Noodles?

Haha I can see it now

"Oh ****, hey Steve the bombers are almost there!!"
"K, one sec, have to log of Counter Strike real quick, some haxor is pissing me off"

quote: Originally posted by GePap Dropped from such an altitude that the kinetic force greaty magnifies the stike?

Yea in theory.

	03-07-2003 01:14									#36
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And from where does the donr with the laser come from? The Continental US as well? Unlikely.

	03-07-2003 01:14									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So now bomber pilots are gona be fat, smelly geeks, with lots of dandruff, and have food stains on their clothes surounded by cans of Jolt a Cup O'Noodles?

Yeah, isn't it great? Even you can be in the military now, che.

	03-07-2003 01:15									#38
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And from where does the donr with the laser come from? The Continental US as well? Unlikely.

Someone already suggested the use of satelites and drones.

	03-07-2003 01:23									#39
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Yes, I know, and that is what the question is aimed at: where would the laser pointing drones come out of?

	03-07-2003 01:25									#40
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I know the general in charge of this project Sounded really effective when he showed me his presentation that he was going to show the top brass to get funding for it.

	03-07-2003 01:29									#41
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So now bomber pilots are gona be fat, smelly geeks, with lots of dandruff, and have food stains on their clothes surounded by cans of Jolt a Cup O'Noodles?

probably... its rather upseting. If i do got to flight school, Ill probably be among the last of real pilots, if that time has already not passed by the time i get there. Just unmanned aircraft have soo many advantages without having to deal with a living pilot inside.

	03-07-2003 01:33									#42
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I'll see if i can find a link, bu there are also things called "Rods of God", which are basically huge DU rods that are launched form space and by the time they impact the ground, their KE is unimaginable... they'll be used for taking out hardened underground bunkers.

	03-07-2003 01:40									#43
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hi ,

the hill wants to hold this project in the fridge a while , .....

why , simple , for this ;

By Julian Borger

The Pentagon is planning a new generation of weapons, including huge hypersonic drones and bombs dropped from space, that will allow the US to strike its enemies at lightning speed from its own territory.

Over the next 25 years, the technology would free the US from dependence on forward bases and the cooperation of regional allies, part of the drive towards self-sufficiency spurred by the difficulties of gaining international help in the invasion of Iraq.

The new weapons are being developed under a programme codenamed Falcon (Force Application and Launch from the Continental US). A US defence website has invited bids from contractors to develop the technology and Jane's Defence Weekly reports that the first flight tests are scheduled to take place within three years. The Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) website says the programme aims to fulfil "the government's vision of an ultimate prompt global reach capability (circa 2025 and beyond)".

The Falcon technology would "free the US military from reliance on forward basing to enable it to react promptly and decisively to destabilising or threatening actions by hostile countries and terrorist organisations," according to Darpa.

In other words, said John Pike, head of Washington think tank GlobalSecurity.org: "It's about blowing people up on the other side of the planet even if no country on earth will allow us to use their territory."

The ultimate goal would be a "reusable hypersonic cruise vehicle (HCV) . . . capable of taking off from a conventional military runway and striking targets 9,000 nautical miles distant in less than two hours". The unmanned HCV would carry a payload of up to 12,000lb and could ultimately fly at speeds of up to 10 times the speed of sound, according to Daniel Goure, a military analyst at the Lexington Institute in Washington.

Propelling a warhead of that size at those speeds poses serious technological challenges and Darpa estimates it will take more than 20 years to develop.

Over the next seven years, the US air force and Darpa will develop a cheaper "global reach" weapons system relying on expendable rocket boosters, known as small launch vehicles (SLV) that would take a warhead into space and drop it over its target.

In US defence jargon, the warhead is known as a Common Aero Vehicle (Cav), an unpowered bomb which would be guided on to its target as it plummeted to earth at high and accelerating velocity.

The Cav could carry 1,000lb of explosives but at those speeds explosives may not be necessary. A simple titanium rod would be able to penetrate 70 feet of solid rock and the shock wave would have enormous destructive force.

Jane's Defence Weekly reported that the first Cav flight demonstration is provisionally scheduled by mid-2006, and the first SLV flight exercise would take place the next year. A test of the two systems combined would be carried out by late 2007.

have a nice day

	03-07-2003 02:24									#44
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And from where does the donr with the laser come from? The Continental US as well? Unlikely.

The same drone/craft that launched the bomb.

That's how it works for ALL laser-guided bombs/missiles.

	03-07-2003 02:32									#45
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker The same drone/craft that launched the bomb. That's how it works for ALL laser-guided bombs/missiles.

hi ,



its possible to have a crew or team on the ground that makes the target " hot " , then the plane releases the bomb at a distance away and follows the laser from the ground team , ......

have a nice day

	03-07-2003 02:47									#46
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True, but that's not the point. The point is that you don't need the crew on the ground.

	03-07-2003 02:57									#47
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker True, but that's not the point. The point is that you don't need the crew on the ground.

hi ,

also true , look at the heli formations in gulfwar I , one heli would choose the targets , mark them and other heli's would fire the hellfire's from an other point , ......

it can also be done by other means , .....

the sky is no longer the limit when it comes to laser guided bombs , .....

have a nice day

	03-07-2003 03:54									#48
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But I wasn't trying to prove that it couldn't!

I was trying to prove that it didn't need to be!

We don't disagree anywhere! This is just a misinterpretation :ugh:

	04-07-2003 01:57									#49
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker But I wasn't trying to prove that it couldn't! I was trying to prove that it didn't need to be! We don't disagree anywhere! This is just a misinterpretation :ugh:

hi ,

is there , where , .....

have a nice day

	04-07-2003 02:30									#50
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This stuff is a waste of money. We have a $450 billion per year military budget with 50% of it going towards new weapon systems who's only competetion is the older weapon system they are replacing. . Does anyone believe a F-22 is 50% better then a F-15? It costs 50% more and no one is building a plane better then the F-15 for at least 15-20 years. The Euro fighter just catches up with the current F-15's upgraded design and Russia is going to be able to field any new weapon systems and China is just buying old Soviet designs.

We should be cutting this junk and spending more on individual soldiers by increasing pay so it is equal with the civilian equivialent and by restoring the level of funding for the GI Bill and the Army college fund.

	04-07-2003 02:32									#51
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Oh and another thing. If over the last 12 years we've halved the number of units in the Army then why do we still have the same number of officers? It sounds like we have a lot of dead wood just sitting around shuffling paper work. We need to cut the middle management and put more money into the enlisted people who get things done and put money into taking care of the equipement we already have before buying new ones.

	04-07-2003 02:37									#52
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I would say that a lot of shareholders in defence companies would disagree with you Oerdin.

	04-07-2003 02:44									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin This stuff is a waste of money. We have a $450 billion per year military budget with 50% of it going towards new weapon systems who's only competetion is the older weapon system they are replacing. . Does anyone believe a F-22 is 50% better then a F-15? It costs 50% more and no one is building a plane better then the F-15 for at least 15-20 years. The Euro fighter just catches up with the current F-15's upgraded design and Russia is going to be able to field any new weapon systems and China is just buying old Soviet designs. We should be cutting this junk and spending more on individual soldiers by increasing pay so it is equal with the civilian equivialent and by restoring the level of funding for the GI Bill and the Army college fund.

hi ,

there are loads of educational options even today , .....

and if the soldiers dont like it , come to Israel , two years service , three years univ , ......

have a nice day

	04-07-2003 02:52									#54
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I'm talking about making soldiers and not defense contractors the main focus of our defense spending. If you already have the biggest fastest car on the block and no one else even has the prospects of getting a car to equal, much less pass, the speed of your current car then isn't it a waste to spend 50% more for a car that only goes 5% faster?

Wouldn't that money better be spent on under funded areas?

	04-07-2003 02:55									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I'm talking about making soldiers and not defense contractors the main focus of our defense spending. If you already have the biggest fastest car on the block and no one else even has the prospects of getting a car to equal, much less pass, the speed of your current car then isn't it a waste to spend 50% more for a car that only goes 5% faster? Wouldn't that money better be spent on under funded areas?

hi ,

that money is going to be spend on jobs also , ....

have a nice day

	04-07-2003 03:02									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin This stuff is a waste of money. We have a $450 billion per year military budget with 50% of it going towards new weapon systems who's only competetion is the older weapon system they are replacing. . Does anyone believe a F-22 is 50% better then a F-15? It costs 50% more and no one is building a plane better then the F-15 for at least 15-20 years. The Euro fighter just catches up with the current F-15's upgraded design and Russia is going to be able to field any new weapon systems and China is just buying old Soviet designs. We should be cutting this junk and spending more on individual soldiers by increasing pay so it is equal with the civilian equivialent and by restoring the level of funding for the GI Bill and the Army college fund.

*bzzzt* wrong! The single biggest budget Item for the DoD is pay and benefits.(30% or so) Then Maintenance. Then Training. THEN Procurement. Then Base construction. Then "Mescellaenous" ( Jeebus, not Area 51.0!)

By the way, I agree with your last paragraph. f--k the F-22, let the cheaper JSF take it's job. And give me a payraise and apartment style Barracks, damnit!

	04-07-2003 03:07									#57
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I also demand that every E-3 be given his/her own RAH-66, complete with training, fuel, and spare parts.

	04-07-2003 03:11									#58
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In addition, the B-1B monstrosity should be retired, and the B-3 should be rushed into production.

	04-07-2003 03:18									#59
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Do we really need another long range nuclear bomber? Why waste money on a weapon system which isn't needed and won't be used?

	04-07-2003 03:23									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin This stuff is a waste of money. We have a $450 billion per year military budget with 50% of it going towards new weapon systems who's only competetion is the older weapon system they are replacing. . Does anyone believe a F-22 is 50% better then a F-15? It costs 50% more and no one is building a plane better then the F-15 for at least 15-20 years. The Euro fighter just catches up with the current F-15's upgraded design and Russia is going to be able to field any new weapon systems and China is just buying old Soviet designs. We should be cutting this junk and spending more on individual soldiers by increasing pay so it is equal with the civilian equivialent and by restoring the level of funding for the GI Bill and the Army college fund.

for once i disagree with you. We need to always be pushing the tech gap between us and ANY adversary as wide as possible. Instead of cutting R&D spending, we need to revise the whole budgeting system of the freakin country. if all goes well, in a 100 years theyll have stealth fighters, and we'll have star destroyers

If the military is given a certain amount of money each fiscal year, and they dont spend it all, they quickly and hastily blow it so as to not lose funding the next year (congress thinking, well gee, they didnt use all that money last time, lets give them less). This wastes billions... it isnt only the military that does this, but the entire beaurocracy of the USA.

These saved billions could then go to soldier and teacher pay raises. Cutting some of those extra officer jobs would be good too. trim the fat. we need more efficiency