02-07-2003 15:06									#1
	US unmanned bomber proposal - Who do they want to kill this time? Increase Your PM Length

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3035332.stm

US plans hypersonic bomber

The United States is planning to build an unmanned hypersonic aircraft capable of striking any target in the world within two hours.
The initial description of the concept - called the "reusable hypersonic cruise vehicle" (HCV) - has recently been placed on the website of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa), the central research and development organisation of the Pentagon.

A conference of companies interested in the project is to be held soon.

The idea is that the HCV would take off from a conventional airfield in the continental United States carrying a 12,000 pound (5,500 kilogram) payload.


This payload would be made up from a variety of munitions, including cruise missiles and a new "glide bomb" dropped from space, called a Common Aero Vehicle (Cav).


Looks like anyone wanting to actually fly for the USAF in the future will be doing it from an office, not a cockpit. Presumably this is also intended as a replacement for the current generation of cruise missiles.

Given that a B-2 costs what, $100million or so, how much will one of these be?

Sorry there is not direct link but I had a bit of difficulty accessing the Darpa site.

	02-07-2003 15:11									#2
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quote: Given that a B-2 costs what, $100million or so, how much will one of these be?

2 Billion is more like it.

	02-07-2003 15:15									#3
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nope, the cost for a single plane is $100m. 2 billion was the whole fleet of 'em methinks

	02-07-2003 15:22									#4
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No.
2 Billion dollars is the price of a one B-2.

	02-07-2003 15:23									#5
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I'm certain.

	02-07-2003 15:29									#6
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My question about cost was more about how many of these they might be able to afford. There are only 2 squadrons of B-2's in service because of the cost. This program is likely to be fighting for funds just when the commitments to the F22 and JSF are at their peak.

	02-07-2003 15:30									#7
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musta mixed it up with an F-117. those fellas are cheaper.

	02-07-2003 15:31									#8
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quote: This program is likely to be fighting for funds just when the commitments to the F22 and JSF are at their peak.

The first such aircraft is supposed to fly at 2025. I'm pretty sure that the US procurement of JSFs and definetely F-22s will be ready by then.

	02-07-2003 17:01									#9
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"How will they afford them"

Transfers from useless social programs, education, and health care, with their bloated budgets....obviously what the typical American needs is a Hyper Cruise bomber.

	02-07-2003 17:07									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker ....obviously what the typical American needs is a Hyper Cruise bomber.

Doesn't everyone?

	02-07-2003 17:09									#11
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I've got one. Trust me, they're not all they're cracked up to be.

	02-07-2003 17:09									#12
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No. Corporate execs need a Hyper Cruise Blamer.

	02-07-2003 18:41									#13
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Considering the recent interest in nuclear weapons, and now a world-spanning unmanned bomber, it seems like it would be a lot simpler and cheaper to just use some of those nuclear-tipped ICBMs and SLBMs we've got sitting around doing nothing.

	02-07-2003 21:42									#14
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let's face it: a hypersonic unmanned bomber would be amazingly cool!

	02-07-2003 22:22									#15
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat let's face it: a hypersonic unmanned bomber would be amazingly cool!

That is true,


About the cost, eh, won't be that big of a deal. C'mon when has the price of anything ever slowed down the U.S??? How much are we in debt now, 6.8 trillion? and to our selves too.... thats just weird.

	02-07-2003 22:31									#16
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As Eli said, the first hypersonic drone bomber wouldn't be ready for use until 2025.

Also, I read another article that indicated part of the push for this bomber was due to the fact that it would make the United States less reliant on forward basing/foreign bases in order to exert its firepower. Apparently this drone bomber could be launched from anywhere w/i the CONUS (continental United States) and hit a target anywhere on the globe w/i two hours, as the article posted by CerebusIV indicates.

The key part, I imagine, is the part about being less reliant on other nations for forward basing of U.S. military power, at least when it comes to air power.

Gatekeeper

	02-07-2003 22:50									#17
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Which could actually reduce costs.

	02-07-2003 22:54									#18
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A 12,000 lb payload? What is that, twice an F-15E's? or about the same?

Seems an extremely high cost for such a small payload. It does not seem it woul be able to roam for targets of opportunity either: it goes after one set target, and that is it...again, is the cost worth it?

I wonder hoe space dropped bombs go with standing treaties about weapons in space? If we start moving forces up there, I don't see why other states should not create anti-satelite systems to take out our eyes in the sky, and then we have to do countermeasures, ans so forth and so on from there.

	02-07-2003 22:57									#19
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These are drones. It would be prohibitively cost-inefficient to build ASAT weapons to hit them. Doesn't the US have something like 5 ASAT missiles?

	02-07-2003 23:02									#20
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I am not speaking of weaposn to hit the drones: I am saying that if we start moving weapons systems into the high atmosphere and space, others may see this as violations of treaties against weapons in space, and that perhaps then they might try to create anti-satelite systems. Afer all, communication and GPS satelites are crucial to a system like this. If an enemy took out our GPS satelites, it would make a huge mess of our areal targetting.

	02-07-2003 23:06									#21
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They wouldn't develop ASAT in response to drones though - they would do it because it'd be a good idea to take out our GPS etc.

	02-07-2003 23:06									#22
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Where do you think ICBMs go?

	02-07-2003 23:06									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Apparently this drone bomber could be launched from anywhere w/i the CONUS (continental United States) and hit a target anywhere on the globe w/i two hours,

This would be a huge advantage because it would reduce our dependance or need on foreign bases. We would no longer have to worry about getting permission to forward deploy. We would no longer have to worry about the time required to prepare a forward base, and move all the necessary equipment. A hot spot could be anywhere on the globe, and if military strikes were required, we could bomb that target with massive ordinance within 2 hours. Also, these bombers would be virtually untouchable since they fly so high as so fast. It would render almost our entire current long range bomber force obsolete!!!!

The bottom line is that such a bomber would have huge advantages that would make it extremelly promising in my book. I hope the US government goes for it.

	02-07-2003 23:09									#24
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This idea is stupid. I can see it starting wars - I can't see it ending them.

When it the Pentagon going to realise that successful bombing mission <> victory?

Should keep a lot of shareholders on the defense spending gravy train. And that's all it will do.

	02-07-2003 23:31									#25
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quote: Originally posted by GePap A 12,000 lb payload? What is that, twice an F-15E's? or about the same? Seems an extremely high cost for such a small payload.

Quote from the article

"It would be going so fast that its small warhead would not matter much since it would hit the target with such force. "

6th paragraph up from the bottom by my count.

	02-07-2003 23:56									#26
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This plane is going to be great for fast and easy knocking out of nuclear reactors that, by 2025, will be popping out all around the world in "hostile" countries.

	03-07-2003 00:03									#27
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Does anybody really want such a thing?
When will they ever learn that the best way of saving lives is by not taking them?

	03-07-2003 00:06									#28
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So now bomber pilots are gona be fat, smelly geeks, with lots of dandruff, and have food stains on their clothes surounded by cans of Jolt a Cup O'Noodles?

	03-07-2003 00:08									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel Does anybody really want such a thing? When will they ever learn that the best way of saving lives is by not taking them?

When it becomes true

	03-07-2003 00:12									#30
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Where do you think ICBMs go?

They speak of a glide bomb dropped from orbit as a possible weapons system. That ot me is the greater issue.

quote: "It would be going so fast that its small warhead would not matter much since it would hit the target with such force. "

So it is just for fixed sites? Why not use improved cruise missiles then?