03-07-2003 00:48									#1
	Turn 120, 170 BC Support Apolyton

Consider this a prod. We have continued to take 24 hours to play our turns, even though our crisis has passed. This is not good as it delays the game for everyone.

I think that we should be able to discuss the next turn once the last turn is moved on. Then Nathan just has to get it done. It should take him no more than a couple hours once he is available to play a routine turn. If unexpected things come up, then we can pause for discussion.

Are there any objections to such an arrangement?

	03-07-2003 00:59									#2
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None whatsoever.
Let's make this a habit during peacetime.

	03-07-2003 01:26									#3
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Things to discuss, then:

1) galley movement - I say we move to block RPs galley.
2) troop movement - I say we move most of our pikes & med infs to the south (around the Tempest area). The rest, pretty much at Nathan's discretion (and perhaps based on Vulture's homeland defense plan).
3) luxury deals - we seem to have several lined up, it should be simple to put them through

Nathan has a good grip on worker actions and city builds for now, I think.

-Arrian

	03-07-2003 02:18									#4
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will contact RP regarding confirming the lux deal and position on the galley.

	03-07-2003 02:22									#5
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Let's get some galleys home and load them up with units, leaving in the open sea only the ones necessary for scouting. We want to be able to mobilize quickly should we have to attack without preparations.

Question: do we want to build a couple more galleys? Two more could really make our job much easier when we invade Bob.

	03-07-2003 02:51									#6
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With Arashi going to finish the FP soon, I think we can switch Blizzard back to a Courthouse, Aquduct, or Harbor build. The FP culture will open up one of the 2 Shielded grasslands before the Temple in Blizzard would anyways, and we will have another town built before then to claim both them probably anyways.

Inchon is another town that the Temple probably isn't required first either.

(yes, I'm wishy washy on building projects...)

	03-07-2003 02:55									#7
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we've got 10 galleys already, so for the moment I don't think we need more... at least not as a high priority. We need to build up our economy first, IMHO, to try to get more out of the coastal cities...

However, I would start thinking on building up a larger cash reserve, so that if we see war is breaking out, we can switch galleys were possible, rush harbors elsewhere, and be able to transform into a naval superpower in mere turns. The decision to go galley building should be made at least a couple of turns in advance if possible. Not that quick reaction is out of the question, but in case something happens on Bob, we need to give ourselves time to see what's really going on, and to try to pick our best course of action. During this time, we can build all the galleys we want, if we got the reserves.

DeepO

	03-07-2003 02:56									#8
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Will Inchon stay where it is now, then?

DeepO
[edit: woops... sorry, I mixed up with D-ville. Inchon was always envisioned to stay there ]

	03-07-2003 03:03									#9
	Remove this text

Galleys: Do we need to block RP from both sides, and if so, do we need all the galleys for this? I can imagine we want our Eastern navy to get in between Bob and us, but could one of the others either pick up units and go scouting South, or start scouting now?

It might be a wild guess, but where we first of all followed the sea in between Bolderberg and Barca, there is still a lot of space we could explore, without risking sinking.

DeepO

	03-07-2003 03:14									#10
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO we've got 10 galleys already, so for the moment I don't think we need more...

I must have miscounted, I thought that we have 7.
Ok than, 10 galleys... certainly more than anyone else has, I'd bet. That's 20 units, or 1 settler, 7 pikes, 4 catapults and 7 medinfs, for instance.

	03-07-2003 03:16									#11
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I don't see why we have to block RP from both sides. In fact, doing so would appear very aggressive, like we're holding their galley hostage (which is precisely what we'll be doing if we block them off from both sides).
Blocking their progress east along our coast is enough, IMHO.

	03-07-2003 03:18									#12
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Well, it's not that they are all in reach of RP But yes, we have 10 galleys at least.

DeepO

	03-07-2003 03:23									#13
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I'd rather not block them, only possibly showing that we are fully able to do so. But we need diplo contact with these guys, to see if they are still interested in our WM or not. Right now, they will very likely continue to sail East anyway, even after they received our map.

DeepO

	03-07-2003 20:24									#14
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Guess what the cat just dragged inside...

	03-07-2003 20:25									#15
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I'm opening the turn...
I suggest that we prepare an orderly list of stuff for Nathan to do once he opens the turn himself so that we can play this one quicker.

	03-07-2003 20:26									#16
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Spices for our furs from ND, accepting...

	03-07-2003 20:28									#17
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Ok, GoW's offer just came up.
Wines and Chivalry for our... furs and 200 gold, right?
Once we're through the diplomatic stage, I'm also going to send GoW an unaccepted World Map, which they're supposed to respond to with their world map.

	03-07-2003 20:55									#18
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Unless GoW accepted our offer (trusting on faith that we'll give them the gold), we need to accept their offer, counter with furs plus 200 gold, and have GoW accept our offer before the current deal will be complete. And we need to finish this deal before we can start on the map deal.

	03-07-2003 21:11									#19
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Nathan: got it.

We got an accepted offer for silks and gems from RP. On our side of the bargain are: (I'm not making this up, I'm reading out what I see) furs, incense, furs, incense.
What are we supposed to do? Surely, this is some weird bug... but I don't suppose it'll have any effects, and if I try to remove one of the duplicates, the deal becomes unaccepted on RP's side, which means that we can't get the luxuries this turn, which means that we can't reduce the lux slider to 10% this turn, which means that we'll lose some money (a little over 20 gold) if we don't accept RP's deal as is (with the duplicates).

	03-07-2003 21:20									#20
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Is it even possible to add two of each luxury in deliberately? I've never tried, but I assume it has to be some new bug. Could someone paranoid with access to civ3 (i.e. not me until next Tuesday) check out whether RP could do that deliberately to try and get extra trade items?

Aren't we one turn from the Colossus now?

	03-07-2003 21:28									#21
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Should we mention to Lux that our WM is now going to include GoW's exploration of Lego's coast (depending on when deals get concluded), or was that already part of the proposal.

Trade summary thread updated.

	03-07-2003 21:36									#22
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We should be two turns from the Colossus if I recall correctly.

The mechanics of MP Civ do not provide any controls that RP could have used to set up the duplicates. It has to be a bug. My thought is for us to go ahead and accept, and then check out our trade status once we're in the main part of the turn. If our trade advisor shows us trading away two of each to RP instead of one, we can restart the turn and not accept the offer.

	03-07-2003 21:37									#23
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Two turns from the Colossus (ooh, the excitement!! ).
I remember seeing this once in SP Vanilla Civ 1.21. I just accepted and I only gave out one source of each lux.

	03-07-2003 21:46									#24
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I checked, and it's alright. We're giving just one of each luxury to RP.
We can lower the lux slider to 10%, or we can lower it to 0% once we have a temple in Hurricane (5 turns to build, but I suggest that we rush it because it'll let us reduce to 0% several turns earlier, and we save about ~25 gold for every turn that we switch to 0% earlier).
Nathan, you should send GoW our WM when you play the turn.

	03-07-2003 21:48									#25
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quote: I checked, and it's alright. We're giving just one of each luxury to RP.

That's good. It must just be a display bug.

	03-07-2003 22:33									#26
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We still need a final decision about whether our fishermen are upset enough about having a foreign galley fish our waters instead of their own to stage a protest and block their progress.

	03-07-2003 22:44									#27
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am in irc hoping bigfree will turn up.

I was thinking we could offer them WM this turn to start the ball rolling with regard to map trade.

	03-07-2003 23:03									#28
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I say we block them.

-Arrian

	03-07-2003 23:32									#29
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yeah but what happens if we do block them.
do we really think they're just going to turn back and go home.

if we block them and they just sit tight this could escalate into a cold war.

	03-07-2003 23:38									#30
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am talking to BF now in irc #PTWTalks (sandwich- password)