04-07-2003 01:01									#211
	Increase Your PM Length

we should be happy

	04-07-2003 01:03									#212
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by GP Do you know the Steire Buhr song?

Yup. You wanna be the Sennerin?

	04-07-2003 01:11									#213
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Yup. You wanna be the Sennerin?

I don't know what that is. I just remember that all the children knew off-color verses. Things like Shiese im meine Pendel-uhr.

	04-07-2003 04:23									#214
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark In WW2 the Italian army protected Jews in the Balkans, and overthrew Mussolini. Id say that beats the record of the Wehrmacht by far.

Only if you're arguing moral aptitude, not military competence.

	04-07-2003 05:20									#215
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey my project is getting more an more physicsy. Actually it is really interdiscuplinary. Unforunately not in a 33% chemistry, 33% Physics, 33% bizness way, but in a 100-100-100 way. (i.e. the problems on all fronts are interesting but non-trivial.)

	04-07-2003 06:42									#216
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If you need any physics help I wouldn't mind, as long as problems are vaguely interesting...

	04-07-2003 07:20									#217
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Where does the US officially apologize for the Indian genocide ?

Ah, sorry but the US did this a LONG time ago.

And by the way most of the Indian genocide WAS CARRIED OUT BY EUROCOMS PRIMARILY SPANISH.

	04-07-2003 07:41									#218
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Ah, sorry but the US did this a LONG time ago.

Is there an official recognition of guilt ? Does the US officially acknowledges having genocided natives ? Does it apologize officially (personal apologies by leaders don't count, I want an apology which enguages all Americans) ? Do American schools teach about the indian genocide ?

If the answer is yes to all these questions, then your country is respecting the obligation of remembrance

	04-07-2003 07:49									#219
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Germans are evil, Gunter Parche was the german Steffi Graf fan who stabbed Monica Seles and It Really Was Too Bad Because Seles Was Kicking Steffi's Ass And Steffi Would Have Never won all those grand slams if Monica hadn't gotten stabbed.

That was a real tragedy!

	04-07-2003 07:50									#220
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Is there an official recognition of guilt ? Does the US officially acknowledges having genocided natives ? Does it apologize officially (personal apologies by leaders don't count, I want an apology which enguages all Americans) ? Do American schools teach about the indian genocide ? If the answer is yes to all these questions, then your country is respecting the obligation of remembrance

yes
yes
yes

	04-07-2003 07:52									#221
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Care to give me a link to this official acknowledgment (or any news reporting to it) ? I'm very curious about it.

	04-07-2003 07:53									#222
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

http://lists.ccil.org/pipermail/fir...ber/000011.html

	04-07-2003 07:56									#223
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: As the nation looked to the West for more land, this agency participated in the ethnic cleansing that befell the western tribes. War necessarily begets tragedy; the war for the West was no exception. Yet in these more enlightened times, it must be acknowledged that the deliberate spread of disease, the decimation of the mighty bison herds, the use of the poison alcohol to destroy mind and body, and the cowardly killing of women andchildren made for tragedy on a scale so ghastly that it cannot be dismissed as merely the inevitable consequence of the clash of competing ways of life. This agency and the good people in it failed in the mission to prevent the devastation.

	04-07-2003 07:57									#224
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: The United State Congress passed Concurrent Resolution #153 in October, 1990 to recognize Wounded Knee as a massacre and issued a statement of deep regret.

http://www.dickshovel.com/smith.html

	04-07-2003 07:58									#225
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Need any more?

	04-07-2003 08:01									#226
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

booya!
not that i condemn genocide... who am i to judge?

	04-07-2003 08:02									#227
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, good to see the bureau for Indian affairs did apologize, and it seems to be sincere. But did any high-ranked politician, such as a president, ever issued this kind of speech in the name of the Nation ?
Did you news outlets talked about such a move on frontpage for days ?

Edit : and http://www.dickshovel.com/smith.html precisely tells us that the Congress hasn't apologized, but only issued a statement of "deep regret", i.e a minor thing where the country refuses to take direct responsibility. Besides, it only concerns the massacre of wounded knee, not the indian genocide as a whole.

	04-07-2003 08:04									#228
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Cut the crap.

	04-07-2003 08:13									#229
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This is not crap.

Last year, when France was in turmoil over torture perpetrated during the Algeria war, the media talked only about it. Chirac made numerous speeches. Every Frenchman having a TV or a radio was perfectly aware of the horrors made by our army in Algeria a mere 40 years ago.

This is not crap: in French schools, our shameful past as collaborationists with the nazi regime gets as much emphasis as the Resistance. It is widely taught that we tortured in Algeria, that we massacred in Madagascar.

Yet, this common knowledge in France is nothing to the shame the Germans pushed on themselves for the past 50 years.

In France and Germany, remembrance is something real. It's not some PC declaration written by some underassistant in some bureau. It is at the core of many presidential speeches. It is the heart of many passionate debates among citizens. And for some, the shameful past is a part of their national identity as much as the glorious past.

No, I don't think it's crap to wonder if there was nearly as much emphasis in the US, starting with an official apology binding the whole Nation.

	04-07-2003 13:45									#230
	Remove this text

What do you want, a first place trophy for being the most less evilest country???

	04-07-2003 14:31									#231
	Support Apolyton

Spiffor: This is stupid. I really see no reason why either you guys or americans should feel bad about something you didn't commit.

	04-07-2003 15:23									#232
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Germany's crocodile tears do not move me.

	04-07-2003 19:24									#233
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Azazel Spiffor: This is stupid. I really see no reason why either you guys or americans should feel bad about something you didn't commit.

There is as much reason to feel guilty about one own's past as there is reason to feel proud about one own's past. History is a full package. The people who take pride in the past achievments of their country (i.e they take pride for something they didn't do) should feel guilty for the past horrors of their country as well.

And I agree with you, being guilty of horrors you didn't do nor support is stupid (as well as being proud of something you didn't do).
The role of a democratic State is to face its history with honesty. Not to use it to promote jingoism.

Ted:
I don't want a first class trophy for the most evilest country. I want honesty in history. I want the State's official communication to be as much aware of its past achievments than of its past horrors. I want the average American to be as much aware of the breakthrough that was the defeat of the British Empire than of the Indian genocide. OTOH, I want the average German to be as much aware of his country's role as a motor of the world's modernity than of the Hitler era.
If a State acknowledges the greatness of its past, and uses it in its propaganda, it has to acknowledge the horrors as well (and vice-versa, in the case of Germany). Not leave the job to some underassistant of an underbureau.

Mr. President:
I have recieved your apologies per PM before reading your post. Apologies accepted. You aren't the only one to say things like that.

	04-07-2003 22:55									#234
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: There is as much reason to feel guilty about one own's past as there is reason to feel proud about one own's past. History is a full package. The people who take pride in the past achievments of their country (i.e they take pride for something they didn't do) should feel guilty for the past horrors of their country as well.

	04-07-2003 23:30									#235
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by BeBro Second, you´re insulted by debating your ministers IQs? Man, they say worse things every day here in Germany about our own politicians.

Schulz showed an incredible ignorance about italian things and talked with obvious contempt towards italians, the answer was IMHO well deserved.
Why do you think Schulz was the only one to get a similar answer but definitely not the only one to criticize the Italian PM?
Di Pietro and that MEP, Nogueira Román, both said things definitely worse about Berlusconi than Schulz. but just Schulz received a similar "unpolite" answer.

Anyway, you're saying that i've to take with irony the IQ "joke" of Schulz? Ok i'll do as soon as you'll take with irony the Nazi "joke" of Berlusconi...

quote: Originally posted by BeBro Third, regarding irony - exactly my point. Since we´re Nazis anyway I just tried to behave consistantly. So expect invasion troops soon.

Exactly your point? great, we agree, if you caught irony, then what's the point of the whole thread?

quote: Originally posted by Sloth UTTER BULLSHIT!!!

Yes in fact Maccanico is a member of government (the immunity law is called "lodo Maccanico" because it was proposed for the first time by Antonio Maccanico, a member of the opposition party "La Margherita")

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark angelo, hows this playing in Italy?

Well, i've to admit that no-one, aside Northern League, support Berlusconi's answer.
Majority thinks, and i totally agree, that it was a trap of Schulz and Berlusconi fell in it like a child (in parliament, and especially in european parliament words are way more important than concepts expressed...).
It's obvious for every one who read Schulz speech that its attacks were not political attacks but insults, anyway this doesn't mean that Berlusconi was allowed to go down at the same level of that guy.

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion godfather? he IS one, everyone knows he's observed by mafia hunters, with less than christian results so far...

WHAT?!?
But what's on the hell are you talking about? this is just another example of ignorance about italians things, Who are those "mafia hunters" who, in your opinion, are observing Berlusconi?
State, here, fight mafia, and we lost several great people during the battle (but probably you just know mafia from TV and think it's cool ) don't try to link the italian government with mafia neither trolling.

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion They havne't really done anyting since then, and I never hear anyone, even Italians, speak about their martial prowless.

Well, if Germans thinks that military is something to be proud of, ok, no problem with it, go and march all the day...
we prefer being remembered for science, culture and art instead of martial prowless, we're different, that's all...
Probably in a battle between Italy and Germany we will gain a cultural victory ala Civ3...

quote: Mr Berlusconi has apologised to Mr Schröder. [...] What did he say to Schroeder that he had to appologize? [...] he insulted a German member of the European parliament, though I agree he should have apologised to that man, not to Gerd S

The point is exactly that, Berlusconi had to explain (no apologize) Schroeder that his answer was directed to that racist idiot called Schulz and not to the German people, obviously he didn't call Schulz because the answer he got was well deserved (or you think that insulting a country, since is Italy, is a good thing?)

	04-07-2003 23:37									#236
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Angelo:
Do you think an insult to your leader equate an insult to your country and to its people ? I don't. I cannot stand the hideous crook you have at the head of your country, yet I love Italy.
Besides, I insult Chirac all day, yet I am not a France-basher here

	04-07-2003 23:53									#237
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Angelo: Do you think an insult to your leader equate an insult to your country and to its people ? I don't. I cannot stand the hideous crook you have at the head of your country, yet I love Italy. Besides, I insult Chirac all day, yet I am not a France-basher here

Like i tried to explain in my previous post Schulz didn't received that answer because of attacks towards Berlusconi (Di Pietro and Roman did bitter attacks), he received that answer because he insulted Italy, read Schulz speech by yourself, it's public.

BTW, why you're all upset of words of Berlusconi? insulting Schulz is not equal to insulting Germany (Schulz is not even German chief of state)
Anyway the point is that Schulz was insulting Italy

And anyway what's wrong with insulting Chirac all the day? (j/k)

	05-07-2003 00:39									#238
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Angelo Scotto Schulz showed an incredible ignorance about italian things and talked with obvious contempt towards italians, the answer was IMHO well deserved.

Lol, you complain all the time about the things said about Berlusconi, yet you have no problem that he calls a guy a Nazi who has nothing to do with Nazis.

According to your logic, I could simply call you murder out of the blue, because I don´t agree with you.

quote: Why do you think Schulz was the only one to get a similar answer but definitely not the only one to criticize the Italian PM? Di Pietro and that MEP, Nogueira Román, both said things definitely worse about Berlusconi than Schulz. but just Schulz received a similar "unpolite" answer.

I don´t care why, I´m not responsible for little Silvio´s little tirades. I´m glad he apologized.

quote: Exactly your point? great, we agree, if you caught irony, then what's the point of the whole thread?

Sorry if you don´t like my threads, still I´ll start one about a topic I like next time without asking you

Maybe it was the point to give you a chance to post more of those because that proves a lot

quote: Majority thinks, and i totally agree, that it was a trap of Schulz and Berlusconi fell in it like a child

Seems our good Silvio has a lot to learn. Oh and that "trap" nonsense sounds like a stupid conspiracy theory unless you can come up with some evidence for it.

quote: The point is exactly that, Berlusconi had to explain (no apologize) Schroeder that his answer was directed to that racist idiot called Schulz and not to the German people, obviously he didn't call Schulz because the answer he got was well deserved (or you think that insulting a country, since is Italy, is a good thing?)

Why is Schulz a racist? Didn´t you complain earlier about him attacking Italian ministers? So if one attacks your guys he´s a Nazi, but if Silvio calls our guys stupid names, we should be glad about it? Dream on....

	05-07-2003 00:51									#239
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The point is, they're both frigging idiots, and only prove my theory why EU never will work. Idiots, idiots, idiots..
Why didn't they be like men and wrestle it out while they were at it?

	05-07-2003 01:20									#240
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by BeBro Lol, you complain all the time about the things said about Berlusconi, yet you have no problem that he calls a guy a Nazi who has nothing to do with Nazis.

Again, he insulted Italy, not only Berlusconi, he could limit himself to attack Berlusconi such Roman and Di Pietro did but not, that idiot had to insult also Italy and probably he was very proud of it.
If you don't know what you're talking about just shut up, you'll make a better figure...
I wrote it already three times, read it again a couple of times, maybe you'll catch it...

quote: Originally posted by BeBro According to your logic, I could simply call you murder out of the blue, because I don´t agree with you.

Are you drunk?

quote: Originally posted by BeBro I don´t care why

That explains a lot...

quote: Originally posted by BeBro Sorry if you don´t like my threads, still I´ll start one about a topic I like next time without asking you

I'm not free to see that, if you really caught the irony, your thread is a nonsense?

quote: Originally posted by BeBro Maybe it was the point to give you a chance to post more of those because that proves a lot

What they've to prove? aside that i don't like what Schulz said about my country (read well, my c-o-u-n-t-r-y, not Berlusconi)?
And explain me, now i've to ask you if i can or not use the ? Go to sleep, it's better...

quote: Originally posted by BeBro Seems our good Silvio has a lot to learn. Oh and that "trap" nonsense sounds like a stupid conspiracy theory unless you can come up with some evidence for it.

Trap? politics is all about those games don't you know? What on the hell has it do to with a "conspiracy theory"? prove what? Schulz himself admitted that he provoked Berlusconi, what i've to prove?

quote: Originally posted by BeBro Why is Schulz a racist? Didn´t you complain earlier about him attacking Italian ministers? So if one attacks your guys he´s a Nazi, but if Silvio calls our guys stupid names, we should be glad about it? Dream on....

Again, you don't know what you're talking about, go and read the Schulz speech...