05-07-2003 09:47									#1
	Weird Political Movements -- Phillipines to Return As American Colony? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, they would if the United States Supporters' Alliance had it way.

http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle...storyID=3036846

I imagine they don't have any more supporters than the 1,000 or so that marched.

	05-07-2003 09:58									#2
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	05-07-2003 10:03									#3
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Actually, the return to conly isn't that surprising, since liberal democracies now treat their colonies considerably better than before, and the flux of wealth is inverted : the mainland pours money in the colony, rather than plundering it.

That's why, for example, the one island which remained dependant of France near Madagascar (La Réunion) is considerably more wealthy than neighbouring islands, and that's why the Comoros once asked to join France again. By the same token, I somehow doubt the inhabitants of the American zone in Panama want to become Panamean again...

	05-07-2003 10:05									#4
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Seriously, The US treated the Phillipines well after the revolution in 1901-02. There are reports of Filipinos in superior positions than Americans during the colonial period... unheard of... a colonized man being a boss to the colonizers! So I'm not too suprised that some want to be back. It was a traditional we take resources from you type deal, but American colonization was focused on building up the infrustructure and industry.

	05-07-2003 10:08									#5
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As I understand it, the Panamanean zone was never part of the United States. Rather, it was leased in perpetuity from Panama.

I'm sort of interested in why we gave up the Philipines anyway. Anybody have a good web page on it?

And why did we gave up the Philipines, but not Puero Rico?

	05-07-2003 10:08									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor By the same token, I somehow doubt the inhabitants of the American zone in Panama want to become Panamean again...

Actually, there are no such people. All the Americans left stock lock and barrel, and took everything not bolted down as well. Oh, and it's Panamanian.

	05-07-2003 14:20									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui There are reports of Filipinos in superior positions than Americans during the colonial period... unheard of... a colonized man being a boss to the colonizers!

I am not sure about the Philippines, but that's not what happened in China, in various "leased areas."

The most famous case is this sign outside of a park, "Chinese and Dogs are not allowed."

	05-07-2003 15:08									#8
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Don't feel so smug about it. Some Congolese also called for a return of the Belgians and the same occured in French colonies. It's simply law and order they're after.

	05-07-2003 15:09									#9
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Besides, I tend to think the calls for the US to pull out of their military positions in the country is much stronger and widespread.

	05-07-2003 15:57									#10
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quote: The most famous case is this sign outside of a park, "Chinese and Dogs are not allowed."

"dogs excepted on a case by case basis"

there have been a few polls in parts of africa that we used to own that have shown the people there would be only too happy for us to come back. no real chance of it ever happening though.

	05-07-2003 16:54									#11
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quote: The most famous case is this sign outside of a park, "Chinese and Dogs are not allowed."

Actually, that cherished chestnut, so often repeated, is not true.

The sign, posted at the entrance to the HuangPu Park on Shanghai's Bund, listed many things that were banned in the park, among them dogs, bicycles, sports, picking flowers, and Chinese who were not servants accompanying westerners. Still offensive, but nothing like the infamous abbreviated "No dogs or Chinese".

It is also worth noting that this was, to my knowledge, the only park with such a restriction, and even it was dropped in 1928.

While it's certainly true that many westerners were not very respectful toward locals, there was never such a sign equating Chinese with dogs.

	05-07-2003 18:18									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Colon Don't feel so smug about it. Some Congolese also called for a return of the Belgians and the same occured in French colonies. It's simply law and order they're after.

Thinking of it, I remember one of the former French colonies in the Indian Ocean actually held a referendum about returning as a colony and the pro-camp won it.

	05-07-2003 18:19									#13
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Yep, IIRC it was the Comoros.

	05-07-2003 20:30									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor That's why, for example, the one island which remained dependant of France near Madagascar (La Réunion) is considerably more wealthy than neighbouring islands,

I was in the neighboring island of Mauritius last summer, and it's doing quite well, thank you. 95% literacy rate, single-digit unemployment, lots of construction, very little poverty or crime, lots of off-shore-banking and cyber-business.

DanS we left the Phils after the locals waged a long, drawnout bloody rebellion we couldn't put down.

	05-07-2003 20:37									#15
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quote: Originally posted by DanS And why did we gave up the Philipines, but not Puero Rico?

My guess would be that it had something to do with the war we fought against them.

	05-07-2003 20:54									#16
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No, it will never happen. My father-in-law told me a while back of a vote taken after WW2 in the Philippines. A national referendum on whether the Phils should petition to join the US. Although seemingly everyone was whole heartedly for the idea, it failed. See, the government of the Philippines couldn't allow it to happen, they would be out a very lucreative job. Soi they 'fixed' the vote. Corruption was a way of life there, still is. So many government officials have taken their pound of flesh out of the Philippine economy, that the country is asia's weakest. The people must share some of the blame, as vote buying is rampant.

Also, if the US were to govern, US laws would apply. When government auditers examined the bank records, the **** would truly hit the fan, and many who 'served' (themselves) in the Philippine government would face prison.

No such vote would ever pass, though it would be very good for both countries' peoples.

	05-07-2003 20:57									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer No, it will never happen. My father-in-law told me a while back of a vote taken after WW2 in the Philippines. A national referendum on whether the Phils should petition to join the US. Although seemingly everyone was whole heartedly for the idea,

Say what? They favored the idea after fighting a bloody war for independence.

	05-07-2003 21:05									#18
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They favored the idea after the US fought side by side with them against the Japanese, and then returned to help them out.

The average Philipino is very fond of the US.

Currently I imagine some favor the idea because they could come to the US and work. Philippinos are very hard workers, and the population of the Philippines is young, while ours is old. Philippinos are generally well educated, though poor and suffering under a corrupt system.

A union could help stave off the social security crisis in the US for one.

	05-07-2003 21:09									#19
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Lancer: I'm more interested in how a movement like this could survive for 50 years--albeit in a very small way--especially after they (politely) insisted that our military leave.

I don't think it would be very good for both countries' peoples, by the way. The Philipines has too many people not to be the master of its own ship. And the US couldn't assimilate that many people (and keep them assimilated).

Anyway, I guess we should have had a little more control over the conduct of the Philipines plebicite. Puerto Rico has had several successful plebicites, so I guess it can be done. But then again, the way to ruin friendships among Puerto Ricans is to ask the group what they think of Puerto Rican statehood. They'll nearly kill each other!

Last edited by DanS on 05-07-2003 at 21:14

	05-07-2003 21:12									#20
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Also, they would not be a colony, but a state. They would have the independence of being Americans. The benefits to the individual would be enormous. Travel...Philippinos can't travel unless they can show they have work, paying a alot of money for a contract overseas. They can't get a Visa to visit the US unless they can show that they leave behind a thriving business. The Philiipne statehood would be very beneficial to Philippinos. A heavily democratic state I might depressingly add...

Yet it would be the democrats that would fight it on the US side. Union jobs...

	05-07-2003 21:17									#21
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Also, they would not be a colony, but a state.

More like 10 states. The Philippines has a huge number of people!

	05-07-2003 21:18									#22
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More than 10 states I imagine.

	05-07-2003 21:18									#23
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Dan, it was the whorehouses which offended the Philppinos. A private in the military was as rich as a philippine doctor... It was a social disaster that the US gov ignored. Don't forget, the Philippines is a heavily catholic country. All that money, all those horny, rich Americans.

The Philippine government turned down billions in US base rights payments every year because of the moral outrage...in a country where a vote is $2.

Funny place, I love it.

	05-07-2003 21:19									#24
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Don't feel so smug about it. Some Congolese also called for a return of the Belgians and the same occured in French colonies. It's simply law and order they're after.

Did I sound smug?

It wasn't my intention.

	05-07-2003 21:20									#25
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78 million peopleI think. How many does California have?

	05-07-2003 21:21									#26
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You always sound smug.

	05-07-2003 21:22									#27
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Dan, it was the whorehouses which offended the Philppinos. A private in the military was as rich as a philippine doctor... It was a social disaster that the US gov ignored. Don't forget, the Philippines is a heavily catholic country. All that money, all those horny, rich Americans.

Well, don't forget that the US is heavily catholic too!

But that's an interesting take on it. I guess the Japanese women are more expensive, so there's not as much social friction?

	05-07-2003 21:27									#28
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"The pro-U.S. group included a girl dressed to look like the Statue of Liberty and mini-skirted majorettes twirling batons while swaying to the tune of "Dancing Queen" popularized by pop group Abba."-From the article

Only in the Philippines.

"But that's an interesting take on it. I guess the Japanese women are more expensive, so there's not as much social friction? "

No, the Americans can't get past the long lines of Japanese men at the whorehose doors... The Japanese are worse than the Americans in this regard, causing problems in the Phils to this day. They openly advertise for poor Philipinas to come to Japan and become 'dancers'....economic prostitutes.

	05-07-2003 21:28									#29
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78 million peopleI think

More like 85 million, with one of the highest population growth rates in the world.

California has 35 million or so.

	05-07-2003 21:33									#30
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You always sound smug.

Well then I guess it's nothing to worry about in this instance, since I couldn't change my posting style anyway. Peasant.