12-07-2003 22:55									#31
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Myrddin, I'm 90% sure that the late game crashes to desktop are due to the pillage tile bug. Martin wrote a patch for it, it isn't always included in the Mods so you'll have to download it yourself, i think it is in the File Directory somewhere or it was on one of the older threads. EDIT: ok i've searched back over the most likely threads from the last year to find the file. I can't seem to find the thread with it in It's not in the Directory so either this means that all the new Mods now have it incorperated as standard, or it has just been forgotten about as most 'regular' players don't get to the late stages often or just don't have the problem? Martin or Locutus could this file be put in the directory if it isn't now part of all the Mods please

The pillage bug is not the problem Peter included GoodMod so it is in.

Peter, did you try the PillageOrder instead of the CutImprovement order?

-Martin

	13-07-2003 02:08									#32
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This is the 'MG_PillageImprovement' handler we're talking about, isn't it?

I didn't touch that one. But I just noticed that the version of Goods.slc that I modified to do the map changes is v1.4. Was anything put into a later version that I'm missing and that might have something to do with this?

	13-07-2003 02:50									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: you're probably the most prominent lurker on these boards

I think that's probably Soren Johnson. He hardly ever posts but I see him in the 'online now' list all the time.

Nice to see a man who enjoys his work. (Hmm, unless he's activating his computer remotely, just to create an impression.)

	13-07-2003 04:18									#34
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Like me, he probably just always has a window to 'Poly open, even if he isn't actually using it...

	13-07-2003 21:50									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs This is the 'MG_PillageImprovement' handler we're talking about, isn't it?

Yes it is this handler, I asked about the PillageOrder, because you commented this one, that the PillageOrder would be better, as it would prevent the unit from a move loss. Possibly I tried the order. And if I tried it then it does not work, but I am not sure.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs I didn't touch that one. But I just noticed that the version of Goods.slc that I modified to do the map changes is v1.4. Was anything put into a later version that I'm missing and that might have something to do with this?

The main issures I tried to address was to accelerate the code a little bit. I tried to reduce for-loops and used functions to get the good index instead of the first way to copy all the code into the handlers. I wrote an alternative function with a tree structure, the goal was to reduce the avarage number of needed equations, but I don't think this has a notable effect.

But I think I made it so that only one turn is needed to finish all the goods. And maybe I found one or two bugs.

And one comment on the unzipping problem:

I got it, too. But it only happens if you used Unzip instead of Winzip to extract the files. It occurs when a file already exists and its write protection is enabled. I got three sprites with write protection on probaly from Cradle. So my solution was to disable the write protection of each single file. Of course alternativly you can also use Winzip.

-Martin

	14-07-2003 02:53									#36
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Sweet Nice one Peter!

	14-07-2003 16:12									#37
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ok thanks for the info on that Martin So no more pillage worries for me(i should download the newer Mods and updates ).

	14-07-2003 20:52									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Peter:

I’ve captured two cities in my game, but only in the second did it ask me if I wanted to loot the place and scatter refugees around my nation? The first was a size 2 and the second a size 7 if that has anything to do with it.

The news updates about foreign wars is a nice touch. I missed that from Civ2. Good work

	15-07-2003 02:21									#39
	impossible Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I Tried it on impossible, take my advice never ever have civs next to you. I got wiped out so bad i had to restart the map. But i learned my lesson. They even destroyed one of my cities. Congratulations you hjave the AI the ultimate killer!!!!

very good job, I like the sprites from ctp1 added in a good idea.

If i download the new patch will i have to restart?

however there are some problems i noticed,

the pollution settings are awful, when you democratic gov the people moan and wine about it. They did that in apolyton which is why i refused to play on it.

too many governments

but i overall i found this to be the best mod for ctp plaers the AI hates you and wants to kill you as i noticed when the welsh kept blitzing me repeatedly, the diplomats said they were raving mad man very funny.

Last edited by chris1 on 15-07-2003 at 15:24

	17-07-2003 06:23									#40
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm going to try to post quickly here before Poly's server goes down again.

quote: I’ve captured two cities in my game, but only in the second did it ask me if I wanted to loot the place and scatter refugees around my nation? The first was a size 2 and the second a size 7 if that has anything to do with it.

Yup, you only get to loot cities of size 3 or more.

quote: If i download the new patch will i have to restart?

You can continue by reloading SLIC. But this is preferably to be avoided. (It can screw up the AI's strategy for a couple of turns and, later on in the game, can make it rather more difficult for you.)

quote: the pollution settings are awful, when you democratic gov the people moan and wine about it. They did that in apolyton which is why i refused to play on it.

I always play with pollution turned off: IMO, this pollution business was not one of Sid's better ideas. Maybe it's OK in general, but this Mod is supposed to be focused purely on the military side of things.

quote: when the welsh kept blitzing me repeatedly, the diplomats said they were raving mad man very funny.

Has anyone got the banana message yet?

	17-07-2003 20:47									#41
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i've had the:

"The mexican leader is stark raving bonkers"

"The English leader hates you"

"The scottish fearful of you"
"The Native Americans secretly wants you guts for garters"

thats about it,



if you put pollution off, with the ecotopia advances work, i.e eliminating polluting cities?

I must compliment on a job well done, exspecially to the AI, who are a bunch of viscous stubborn pests Particulary the mexicans and native americans. They keep on trying to steal my cities, and kill my units



Also do you know how many men you need to take over the world? im currently stuck playing defense. Need to build up my armies.

Last edited by chris1 on 18-07-2003 at 15:45

	21-07-2003 04:11									#42
	important post sorry Remove this text

hi sorry guys for the double post but i just got the funniest message ever from the Ai:

It was Japan it says " There leader has gone bannas and is convinced this a computer game"

Very funny, indeed, although they not so funny when they razed two of my cities to the ground, damn them!!!! i can't conquer them either, on a sub continent with mountains in the way but did manage to destroy the size 22 city of satsuma which made me feel much better.

	22-07-2003 01:15									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: if you put pollution off, with the ecotopia advances work, i.e eliminating polluting cities?

Don't know, but you can always try.

quote: Also do you know how many men you need to take over the world? im currently stuck playing defense. Need to build up my armies.

I can't say exactly, but I do build a lot more armies than I used to. In part this is just to keep my cities well defended.

There's always a 'banana option' in Poly polls, so I figured that since this game is only ever going to be available from Poly, there should be a banana in it someplace.

	23-07-2003 22:27									#44
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Really nice game Peter

Comments:

I've never seen an AI raze to the ground another AI city before, but the Nigerians and the Dutch did it to the Chinese.

I thought that the AI didn't bombard outside their own cities, but I have a Ethiopian 12-stack with about 5 or 6 catapults fortified outside one of my cities and every turn they bombard it, they also have a 10 stack roaming around waiting for my defenses to weaken I suppose.

The navy fighting was more intelligent also, the Ethiopians took care of the fire tirene's that were guarding my shores and then a 4 stack invaded.

What exactly triggers a Coup D'Etat? I took over Moscow and the entire Russian empire was turned over to the Ethiopians. It was the first of their cities I took, altough I did retake two cities of mine that I had lost. It seemes a drastic measure, but I liked it.

All in all a very nice game.

	23-07-2003 23:03									#45
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quote: What exactly triggers a Coup D'Etat? I took over Moscow and the entire Russian empire was turned over to the Ethiopians. It was the first of their cities I took, altough I did retake two cities of mine that I had lost.

The Coup D'Etat should have been triggered by your previous conquest of some other nation. When you defeat a nation then, if you're relatively strong a Coup will take place. It's rather linear I'm afraid because as soon as you take out one nation, you're on the road to running away with the game.

I'm working on the second patch. I think I can fix it so that the AI civs will keep up with you in science almost right to the end of the game.

	23-07-2003 23:10									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs The Coup D'Etat should have been triggered by your previous conquest of some other nation. When you defeat a nation then, if you're relatively strong a Coup will take place. It's rather linear I'm afraid because as soon as you take out one nation, you're on the road to running away with the game.

I did take out Canada three turns before, so that's what must have triggered the Coup. Thanks.

quote: I'm working on the second patch. I think I can fix it so that the AI civs will keep up with you in science almost right to the end of the game.

The only the patch available is the one you put up right after you announced CtC right?

	23-07-2003 23:38									#47
	Great AI Got spare money?

The Ai are very effective now, build more units will use far more powerfull weaponary,

i think you need at least over 350units to win, on this type of game i found it is better off conquering civs during the modern part of the world.

Everyone razes my cities to the ground.

	24-07-2003 05:32									#48
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Peter:

I did a tech tree of CTC, I got lost where the new units come into play. I didn't find a previous or future tech for "SUB-NEURAL ADS", did I get things wrong?

I tried to upload the file in the post but since I did it in excel it won't upload in poly.

I also noticed that the tank doesn't update to fusion tank, and that other units don't have previous units they can be updated to. This is the case of marines, hover infantry, etc. Did you have any particular reason for doing this?

Thanks and sorry about the hassle.

	24-07-2003 05:46									#49
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SUBNEURAL_ADS is kept without previous or future techs so that it can be used as a null advance in the game files. It means we can assign an advance to tile improvements, units, buildings etc. which the AI can never research, so that it can't build things it shouldn't, like Wonder units, visible wonders, GoodMod improvements and so on.


If you zip your excel sheet, the zip file can be attached.

	24-07-2003 19:19									#50
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Peter,

Outstanding work! Best mod I've ever played (and that is quite a compliment, as there are some excellent mods on here).

Random thoughts:
-I've had the AI bombard me, either bombarding my cities or bombarding my army when it is trying to take a city.

-This is one I haven't seen posted yet: you can destroy ALL tile improvements with a ship in one turn! When I was attacking the Cubans, if you bombard on tile improvements, it destroys them. Just keep moving your ship and bombarding them (not pillaging, but bombarding). So, even with a submarine you can move around the AI's coast, bombarding sea and land tile improvements and destroying them all until you are out of movement. The AI doesn't do this Peter, so this is something to be looked at.

-Love the unconditional surrender! However, then it seems like you are racing the AI to put troops in that city. Isn't it possible to place some units in there and calling it an occupation force or something?

-Btw, pillboxes ROCK!!!

-Coup D’etat gave all of the old units to the conqueror. I was stacking an army to finish off Cuba. They only had 5 cities, outdated units (riflemen against my tanks) and were on alert status. Then, the friggin' Chinese launch a coup and foiled my plans! Brilliant, Peter, though I wanted to kill you at the time!

-I personally like all of the different governments.

-One thing that did puzzle me, late in the game (1750-ish) all of the other civs were at peace with one another. They were all just at war with me! I do have an alliance with the Irish, however.

I’m sure I’ll come up with more feedback as I get further along.

	25-07-2003 03:04									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat SUBNEURAL_ADS is kept without previous or future techs so that it can be used as a null advance in the game files. It means we can assign an advance to tile improvements, units, buildings etc. which the AI can never research, so that it can't build things it shouldn't, like Wonder units, visible wonders, GoodMod improvements and so on. If you zip your excel sheet, the zip file can be attached.

Thanks IW, clears up the confusion about the advance.

Here's the zip file of the tech tree and the updater path for the units in CTC. As I said, I hope I didn't make any (many?) mistakes.

	25-07-2003 04:20									#52
	current game Support Apolyton

yes when i played i noticed the japanese constantly built ships to attack my shores and prevent me building them. ("CURSE THEM")

i also like the new leader units, very handy in a scrap.

i also discoverd the only way i ever manage to get the japs to surrender was simply to burn to the ground half of their cities.

But

If it is at all possible could you improve the map editor, to allow you simply to insert say australia next to japan or something. I think this would be great idea for the game.

Last edited by chris1 on 25-07-2003 at 04:28

	27-07-2003 04:04									#53
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tlatoani:

quote: also noticed that the tank doesn't update to fusion tank, and that other units don't have previous units they can be updated to. This is the case of marines, hover infantry, etc. Did you have any particular reason for doing this?

I intended that the game should end at the current technology level (stealth fighters/bombers). When you get to this point you'll notice that there's a big jump in the advance costs. But I guess it wouldn't hurt to put updates in for future techs. Will do.

And thanks for doing the tech tree!

aias:

quote: This is one I haven't seen posted yet: you can destroy ALL tile improvements with a ship in one turn! When I was attacking the Cubans, if you bombard on tile improvements, it destroys them. Just keep moving your ship and bombarding them (not pillaging, but bombarding). So, even with a submarine you can move around the AI's coast, bombarding sea and land tile improvements and destroying them all until you are out of movement. The AI doesn't do this Peter, so this is something to be looked at.

Right, will get on to it. I've been working on 'Reforming Fascists', and literally just got it finished. If you (or the AI) are in Fascism and then switch to a more advanced Government type, you lose all your Fascist units. I've worked out a way to 'reform' them so that they become Modern Infantry units. The actual code is trivial, but it took me over a week to figure out how to do it.

quote: Isn't it possible to place some units in there and calling it an occupation force or something?

Could do but I rather like it the way it is. You should be getting enough messages so that you have a pretty good idea of when you're about to beat them. This way you have to plan ahead to rush some troops into your new cities. Actually, you generally don't need a lot: it usually takes the AI awhile to adjust to the new balance of power.

quote: -One thing that did puzzle me, late in the game (1750-ish) all of the other civs were at peace with one another. They were all just at war with me! I do have an alliance with the Irish, however.

Ahh, this may take some justifying. I'll try to get back on it tomorrow.


chris1:

quote: If it is at all possible could you improve the map editor, to allow you simply to insert say australia next to japan or something. I think this would be great idea for the game.

Afraid this is a 'no can do'. Maybe if we get the source code, but don't hold your breath. I think that this sort of thing would be very difficult. (For us at least.)

Update: Just as I was about to post this it's been announced that the source code is going to be released!

	27-07-2003 18:52									#54
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Peter, thanks for the replies.

I'm very close to finishing off the Nigerians, the last civ standing. They even had a coup to overthrow my alliance partner, the Irish.

The AI makes great use of air power. I remember the unmodded CTP2 the AI planes just flew back and forth between cities. Now they attack other sea, air and land units.

I've really enjoyed playing this mod. After I'm done with this game, I'm going to bump up the difficulty level and see what happens!

Again, fantastic work!

	28-07-2003 00:30									#55
	Inflate your Upload Space

the turks had a coup and surrended to me unconditionally, i now have all there cities. but i have bit of a problem i don't have enough troops to station in them. I also want to retake an island that ireland stole of me.

great game.

	29-07-2003 06:05									#56
	Raider Units Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Great mod...been getting squished quite a bit...but two things I have noticed:

Raiders are supposed to be a transport unit, and I can't seem to load any units on them...this disabled my campaign as I upgraded all of my transports to these and was unable to continue my attack on another continent. Anyone else have this problem?

Secondly: Is there any way to make the gigantic maps bigger in a future release of this MOD?

Thanks.

-Arya

	29-07-2003 06:07									#57
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Arya.

I had the same problem with the raiders as well

	29-07-2003 10:10									#58
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

everything about the game is perfect, great AI and the new units are awesome however there are still some problems:

Generated maps suck beyond imagination.

Some of the units don't have animation,

still bugs in the system i.e freezing up, taking longer to start up and outright crashing

	30-07-2003 01:10									#59
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chris1:

quote: Some of the units don't have animation

I tried to use only animated sprites whenever possible, but in a few cases there just aren't appropriate ones. There's also a few odd tga's. This is because I know literally sweet FA about graphics and was hoping that someone would volunteer to fix them up.

Aias:

Re: Bombarding tile improvements. I see what you mean and this is a nasty one. It's because of a technical thing with the event that triggers the special effects that I put in and the destruction of the tile improvements:

code:

BombardOrder(army_t, location_t)

 Order an army to bombard.

This triggers when the order is given, whether or not the army can legally bombard the location (e.g., you get the red circle cursor). It's not very easy to work with: it would be better if there were another event that triggers when the actual bombarding takes place. You might have noticed that you only get these effects when the human does the bombarding. I couldn't do the effects for the AI because it's always giving this order and it was just too difficult to control. If you get the effects and notice that nothing else happens, I'm afraid you just have to view it as 'target practice' .

So, I can try to 'zero out' the movement of your ship as soon as you give the order but this will mean that you'll have one chance to take out a tile improvement and, whether or not you succeed, your ship is finished for that turn. What do you think?

aryaba:

quote: Is there any way to make the gigantic maps bigger in a future release of this MOD?

Quite possibly. I don't think that using extra-large maps and more than 8 civs would break the mod but it might mean that it runs very slowly. Martin is the expert on this sort of thing; maybe he's tried it.

quote: Raiders are supposed to be a transport unit, and I can't seem to load any units on them...this disabled my campaign as I upgraded all of my transports to these and was unable to continue my attack on another continent.

Aak, I forgot to put the cargo data in for the Raider unit. This is easily fixed: I've attached a new CTC_Units.txt. Use it to replace the old one in ...\ctp2_data\default\gamedata. (You shouldn't need to reload SLIC to keep your game going.)

I've also tweaked some of the ZBRangeAttack values for later UNIT_CATEGORY_ATTACK and UNIT_CATEGORY_DEFENSE units (Infantrymen, Musketeers, and later). I'm trying to make sure that they stay in the front row in battles and that proper ranged units stay behind them. Feedback on this is appreciated.

Attachment: ctc_units.txt
This has been downloaded 73 time(s).

	30-07-2003 01:52									#60
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Peter, I see what you mean about the problems with the bombard. In a perfect world (i.e., when the code is out) it would be great to be able to bombard a city or tile improvement and then have a move or two to get away. I think it would be best to probably zero out after the bombard takes place. My guess is that this would bring it more in-line with AI behavior, since the AI doesn't do the non-stop bombard.

Also, I'm playing a third game and I'm still running into the same thing: where all of the AI civs are at peace, except with me!