08-07-2003 03:11									#1
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My fuel injector sprung a leak and flooded my ECM (emissions control decive)... It will cost at least $1200 to replace (can't be fixed)... This really sucks.

On top of that I just got my radiator repairs done by the dealer and now they are telling me that it has yet another leak (the same dealer is telling me this).

I am tempted to take my truck from them and have someone else fix it. Trouble is, how can I trust anyone else? Also, I had to have the truck towed to the dealer for repairs this morning, and towing it again will cost (time and money).

I am going to have the fools fix the fuel injection system, and then go down there and talk to them about the leak, since they did do work on that part of the vehicle recently. If they won't fix it for free I am taking it somewhere else. I got a refferal from the tow truck guy this morning...

So, for all those who complain about how much it costs or how difficult it is to have you car fixed... I sympathize, and am going through a hell of a time right now...

That is all, just wanted to rant.

I am going to go home early and drink my troubles away

	08-07-2003 03:12									#2
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Make, model, and year of car?

	08-07-2003 03:13									#3
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1998, GMC, Sierra 1500, Z71

	08-07-2003 03:14									#4
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GMC, mechanical problems?

No way!

	08-07-2003 03:15									#5
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That doesn't help Asher... Go watch NASCAR

	08-07-2003 03:21									#6
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Isn't there a limited warranty?

	08-07-2003 03:40									#7
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Can't check the truck is at the dealership.

	08-07-2003 03:41									#8
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I also have 90,000 miles on it.

	08-07-2003 03:47									#9
	Got spare money?

That's what you get for buying American cars...are they as bad as French cars?

	08-07-2003 03:53									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Japher 1998, GMC, Sierra 1500, Z71

Buying a individual injecter shouldn't cost to much and as long as the ECU didn't short out you should be fine. My suggestion is to go to the nearby junk yards and try to find a wrecked late model Sierra Z71 so you can pick up a second hand injector on the cheap. Then install it yourself using a Chilton's guide. I bet the whole thing can be done for under $100.

	08-07-2003 03:56									#11
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I am sure even an ECU can't cost the best part of $1200...then again...

	08-07-2003 03:58									#12
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Also check the power train warrenty that GMC is offering. Most makes have a 10 year powertrain warrenty so you might be able to get a dealer to fix it for free.

	08-07-2003 03:58									#13
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I meant the repair work.

	08-07-2003 04:00									#14
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I'm not sure, but I do believe that the unit shorted. I was looking online and it looked to me like the two units combined cost around $800... Also, they charge about $50/hour... I am sure they are ripping me off, but I know nothing about how to repair a car. The time it would take me to fix it myself would be worth the money. It just makes me mad that something busted that I have no control over (i.e. regular maintenance and care)... I am going to check the warrenty (though a dealership is ussually really good about catching those things) then I will lodge a complaint with GM.

	08-07-2003 04:01									#15
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Fitting a new injector isn't tricky, a new ECU on the otherhand is...

	08-07-2003 04:02									#16
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The warrenty was for 5 years or 35,000 miles, both of which I am over... Though some parts do have extended warrenties, yet that would not cover labor...

	08-07-2003 04:02									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison That's what you get for buying American cars...are they as bad as French cars?

Sorry Harrison but that's just plain wrong. Check out any of the quality info like J.D. Powers orf Wards and you'll see that American cars almost always have fewer problems then German & Swedish cars (we're talking $20k American cars being better built and having few problems the $50k German ones), way fewer then other Euro cars (Italian, French, British [what's left of them] or Korean cars, and just a few percentage points behind the better Japanese makes (Honda, Toyota, Suburu) and well ahead of the lesser Japanese makes (Isuzu, Suzuiki, Mitsubishi).

	08-07-2003 04:05									#18
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American cars have an international reputation for being lumps of crap

	08-07-2003 04:09									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison American cars have an international reputation for being lumps of crap

Ignorance. The world had an international reputation for being flat but everyone was wrong.

Perception always trails reality.

	08-07-2003 04:13									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison American cars have an international reputation for being lumps of crap

As opposed to the bulletproof quality of british models??

Ford had to buy jaguar out they sucked so bad...

	08-07-2003 04:18									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Fitting a new injector isn't tricky, a new ECU on the otherhand is...

I remember replacing an injector on my old GTI. All it took was a deep socket set, a torque wrench, and about five minutes. The two ECUs I've messed with were complete self contained boxes with plugs in them. You just unplugged the unit and plugged in the new one.

Still the new units were always $$$. Even my 1975 fuel injected beattle's ECU cost something like $500 new. Fortunately I was able to find a replacement ECU at the junk yard for $80 but still...

	08-07-2003 04:37									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison American cars have an international reputation for being lumps of crap

Coming from an Englishman, this is indeed!

	08-07-2003 04:38									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Sorry Harrison but that's just plain wrong. Check out any of the quality info like J.D. Powers orf Wards and you'll see that American cars almost always have fewer problems then German & Swedish cars (we're talking $20k American cars being better built and having few problems the $50k German ones), way fewer then other Euro cars (Italian, French, British [what's left of them] or Korean cars, and just a few percentage points behind the better Japanese makes (Honda, Toyota, Suburu) and well ahead of the lesser Japanese makes (Isuzu, Suzuiki, Mitsubishi).

Sorry Oerdin, what you're talking about is JD Powers & Associate's initial quality awards.

Initial quality just means how many defects per X many cars are detected for each brand when they hit the car lot.

Everyone knows American cars are great til they're 4+ years old, then they go to ****.

Go check your Lemonaide/Used Cars buyers guide, there's a reason why American cars don't hold their value at all compared to Japanese/German cars.

	08-07-2003 04:51									#24
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Sorry Asher but that won't be true no matter how many times you claim American cars fall apart after X number of years. Some Japanese makes (notably Toyota & Honda) can command higher resale because buyers percieve higher quality but many Japanese makes (Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Mazda, Iszusu, and until recently Nissans) drop just as fast if not faster then Domestic models. Also Honda and Japan often limit the number of units they make or import so it is less then demand so they can charge a price primium.

The big three are saddled with lots of factories and a heavily unionized work force which threatens to strike every time Management tries to rationalize the excess factory space. The result? It's cheaper for them to way over produce models and sell them at steep discounts then it is to close the excess factories, put up with the weeks of strikes, and pay the endless lay off benifets the Unions will demand for redundant workers.

Since production by the big three if forced to be greater then demand is it any wonder prices drop? I mean if I want a late model Pontiac there are a dozen different dealers/sellers with the right color, options, and what not to choice from while a late model Honda will have much less selection availible since so many fewer were produced and sold in the US market.

	08-07-2003 04:52									#25
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Asher: You're going to find the simple anwser is almost always wrong and when you look closer the real anwser is much more complicated.

	08-07-2003 04:53									#26
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Vehicle dependability rankings are owned by the Japanese, with three historically European cars finishing above the industry average: Porsche, Jaguar, and BMW. Given that the Yanks have 4 on the list (http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressre...yID=692&CatID=1), having a Brit laughing about American car dependibility is pretty damned funny... and it would be funny the other away around, of course.

Otoh, not a single European car was tops for its category except for "Premium Sports Car", a market that isn't really sought after by the Japs and Americans.

	08-07-2003 04:55									#27
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Well, all I know is anecdotal evidence with friends and family (Uncle works QA at the Ford Plant in St. Thomas, Ontario) from their own cars for how crappy they are for long-term reliability. On the other hand, my family with Toyotas and friends with Subarus and Hondas don't have any problems, or if they do they're very rare.

Hell, my best friend drives a 1985 Corolla Elite and it's still working perfectly fine, hasn't given him any trouble in the three years he's owned it.

Whereas they've replaced the entire engine in his friend's 1990 Dodge pickup.

And it's not only anecdotal evidence, but resale value.

Sure, you can get American cars that give you zero problems or Japanese cars riddled with them, but in general that's not the case.

I'm not sure how you can blind yourself to the obvious so well.

	08-07-2003 04:57									#28
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It's not "blinding ourselves to the obvious" it's "not relying on anecdotal 'information'. "

	08-07-2003 04:58									#29
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT It's not "blinding ourselves to the obvious" it's "not relying on anecdotal 'information'. "

So how do you explain the resale values?

Edit: and Oerdin's explanation is just funny.

	08-07-2003 05:20									#30
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Well, his observation that people will pay for what they think they are getting rather than what they actually are getting is very true and is the foundation of modern economics.