08-07-2003 18:49									#31
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Probably not. I don't like being treated as a 2nd-class being, and ergo I refuse to worship any other being. It would demean myself and demean this god, as it would imply he was such a petty being (despite his supposed omnipotence, omniscience and love) as to require fawning from his children.

I don't worship my parents, who gave me life. I'd be happy to be chummy with said deity were he proven to really be all-loving and benevolent, though. I'd buy him a drink.

	08-07-2003 18:51									#32
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Well I certainly would be kissing its ass to try and get on it's good side.

	08-07-2003 19:44									#33
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well i don't like the bit in the question that says 'If'.
It's obvious when you look at all peoples in the world that they believed in their own gods at some time.

So in a way it's our duty to pay a bit more respect to them all

you still there? better get of that computer and pray for your souls suckers

	08-07-2003 19:50									#34
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worship is to honor or love

or to regard with ardent esteem

if God is as the christian God is (powerful, loving, this really great all arround guy), wouldn't you love him?? and honor him??

that is all worship is

I mean I honor and love many people, we just use worship as the word to describe those actions in relation to dieties

Jon Miller

	08-07-2003 19:50									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Probably not. I don't like being treated as a 2nd-class being, and ergo I refuse to worship any other being. It would demean myself and demean this god, as it would imply he was such a petty being (despite his supposed omnipotence, omniscience and love) as to require fawning from his children. I don't worship my parents, who gave me life. I'd be happy to be chummy with said deity were he proven to really be all-loving and benevolent, though. I'd buy him a drink.

	08-07-2003 19:56									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Probably not. I don't like being treated as a 2nd-class being, and ergo I refuse to worship any other being. It would demean myself and demean this god, as it would imply he was such a petty being (despite his supposed omnipotence, omniscience and love) as to require fawning from his children. I don't worship my parents, who gave me life. I'd be happy to be chummy with said deity were he proven to really be all-loving and benevolent, though. I'd buy him a drink.

I don't think you know what worship means

Jon Miller

	08-07-2003 19:57									#37
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in fact, it appears that very few people here know what worship means

Jon Miller

	08-07-2003 20:01									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Sava not a troll on religion... just sharing my own views... I invite others to share their opinions, but please, no personal threadjacks please. If there was a God, I would not worship him. If he wants me to worship him, and he had given me free will to do with as I will, I shall not worship God. And God must accept this if he is good and fair. And if this God is not good and fair, than such a God should not be worshipped. Agree/Disagee? Why?

Contrary to your disclaimer, this is a typical troll thread.

Let me ask this.
If there was a Sava, would he have his head up his ass all the way past his shoulders?
I'd have to say "Yes".

Agree/disagree? Why?

	08-07-2003 20:31									#39
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slowwhand

	08-07-2003 20:34									#40
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No, I wouldn't worship a God.

Any God that requires worship isn't worth worshipping.

	08-07-2003 20:34									#41
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quote: it appears that very few people here know what worship means

It appears that a lot of people have differing views of what "god" is...

	08-07-2003 20:34									#42
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I agree w/ Sava's view.

The conventional view of worship that I usually hear involves subordinates paying some form of tribute to 'higher beings'.

	08-07-2003 20:51									#43
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Whoreship!

If the God is so mightly he does not need us.

	08-07-2003 20:55									#44
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From what I've read about the Christian God (ie the Bible) he doesn't sound all that good and loving to me. Jesus has got some good ideas though.

	08-07-2003 20:56									#45
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Oh and I know they are the same. I guess what I'm saying is that the OT god is a bit of a nightmare but with things set out better in the NT it's a lot better.

Still don't believe in an all powerful God though, it seems a bit of a silly concept.

	08-07-2003 20:56									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller in fact, it appears that very few people here know what worship means Jon Miller

And presumably you do. Fact is, for most of human history worship = some physical sacrifice. Now, you can either claim that most of humanity has just been plain wrong or admit the our societial conception of gods and worship are what have changed over time.

Afterall, man makes god is his own image.

	08-07-2003 20:58									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I don't think you know what worship means Jon Miller

I think you're being rather loose with the term vis-a-vis a deity. The definition you gave is vague, as it doesn't note the inherent difference between a deity and a human being.

I love and adore my parents, but as equal human beings. That is by no means worship, is it? Do we worship everything we love and adore?

"Worship" in a religious sense involves an inferior status to the deity. After all, the Christian god supposedly loves and adores us. Does that mean god worships us?

If you want to stretch worship to apply to affection for someone whom I view as my equal, I suppose I wouldn't mind "worshipping" god. But I think that is rendering the word "worship" meaningless in the religious sense and using it more akin to colloquialism ("I worship the ground she walks on!")

The bottom line is I don't feel any urge to be inferior to anyone, no matter how powerful they are. If a deity insists I worship him or else go to Hell, then I certainly won't do so. That would be a coerced worship and unworthy of mine or anyone else's devotion.

	08-07-2003 20:58									#48
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If I have to sacrifice any female virgins than I am right out.

	08-07-2003 20:58									#49
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Sure if he's almighty, and good. But if he was allmighty and good, he wouldn't allow all bad things to happen. and since bad things do happen, apparently he has wierd sense of humor.

	08-07-2003 21:06									#50
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One thing that always bothered me when I was a little kid about the whole God thing.

If he's a good/fair God then how come just a few people get to know about him and the chance to 'worship' him and therefore go to heaven. What about some tribe in the Amazonian rain forest who have never had contact with anyone who's heard about this God who is worshipped by a few people in the ancient middle east?

That seemed unfair. So then I wondered why their Sun god or variety of Gods would be any worse.

Eventually I decided they must all be true or all be made up by humans. Since there were too many contradictions for them all to be true... But I was only 10. I guess going to a Church School backfired on them, just made me see how contradictory and illogical it all was.

	08-07-2003 21:08									#51
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"Explain to me why you reject all other gods but yours, and then you'll see why I reject yours."

Or something like that.

	08-07-2003 21:09									#52
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Exactly.

Plus as a kid the Christian God wasn't as cool as a lot of the other ones.

	08-07-2003 21:14									#53
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Vishnu!

*waves arms around seductively*

	08-07-2003 21:18									#54
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Well.. if God exists (as I believe it does), then God gave us free will. And if someone who created lots of stuff and is the ultimate boss.. and still gives me free will, I'll respect that and recognize it. Also I want that after life, thank you very much. So I choose yes. But by worshipping I don't mean (and I don't tihnk God meant either, my own interpretation) being on your knees all the time and being so sorry and promise to devote all my life to Gods service. To me it means that it is a force to be reckoned, and that it is a good master, because it doesn't make me slave, and let's me be as I want.
It's not that uptight to me. I have a free will, and it doesn't limit anything even if I choose 'yes'. To me, it's in the heart, and that's all you have to do. And sometimes doing the right thing. And that's it. That's my worshipping.

	08-07-2003 21:19									#55
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Right, exactly.

And all the ancient European Gods were cool. The Romans, Greek, Norse, Celtic Gods. Oh, and the Egyptian ones before that. It seemed more likely that there would be more than one God if there was one because of all the "Where do the God's come from" questions.

The Christian God never gets to **** someone in the form of a great white bull for instance.

	08-07-2003 21:28									#56
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Jesus tapdancing Christ with this thread already. If there was a God and I had a good proof of him existing, along with knowledge that there's a heaven/hell thing going on and key of getting in is worshipping him, I'd fall on my knees on a nanosecond and bang my head through the freakin' floor.

I mean, hmm, we have a choice of ETERNITY OF PLEASURE and ETERNITY OF ULTIMATE PAIN here, and it's going to be my own personal choice affecting no-one else.

What will I choose, what will I choose?

Could it be ETERNITY OF ULTIMATE PAIN? Nooooo. That's not really my bag, ultimate pain, you know.

Could it be ETERNITY OF PLEASURE? Now that sounds a bit dodgy here, I mean, are we talking of sensual or intellectual pleasure, or... OF COURSE I'M GOING TO TAKE THE ETERNITY OF PLEASURE HERE, JESUS CHRIST ALREADY!

No! Wait! I can stage an empty geasure of defiance towards God! Hahaa! That's going to do me a lot of good, that is! My last act of bravery will surely warm my bones IN HELL no wait they're not going to need warming, do they?

What? Good and fair God shouldn't be worshipped? That's exactly the kind of God that should be worshipped if he wants it! I mean, if I don't worship it he's going to throw me in Hell? HELL PEOPLE, HELL! Also, ungood and unfair God would be easier to please with a completely craven and self-interested display of worship.

Why would the God want my worship? I couldn't care, the big question is him wanting it, and if he says jump I'll go froggity-skippity for all I care! Debasement is a small price to pay when it gets my ass out of infernal torture.

I'm an utilitarian, and as such, if there was a God demanding worship or me going to hell, the only rational choice for me is to worship the God. It's a simple pleasure vs. pain equation, and pleasure comes to top.

	08-07-2003 21:31									#57
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Stefu

	08-07-2003 21:35									#58
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Stefu, NOOO! It's a trick! If I was God.. I wanted to have some characters in my heaven. So the rebels who would have absolute proof and still decided to rebel, but not fall into the dark side.. I'd make them chiefs and kings. Because they have character. The ones who were like sheeps, they'd get in too, but they wouldn't have all the benefits.

	08-07-2003 21:35									#59
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Stefu, no-one said anything about Heaven or Hell, they just said if there was a God would you worship them.

If you assume it's a Christian God then AFAIK you don't need to worship him to go to heaven, just live a good life and don't worship anyone else.

	08-07-2003 21:40									#60
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If Heaven and Hell are removed from the equation, it's going to be a trickier question. I'd still fall on the worship scale, though. God would still be nothin' to fuck with, and I'm not one for those smarmy empty gestures that people in this thread profess to love.