 |
| |
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
 |
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Stefu
No! Wait! I can stage an empty geasure of defiance towards God! Hahaa! That's going to do me a lot of good, that is! My last act of bravery will surely warm my bones IN HELL no wait they're not going to need warming, do they? |
You miss the point and fall to the same fallacy that kills Pascal's Wager. The empty gesture is the worship, not the refusal. "Worship" of an omniscient deity entails heartfelt love and devotion, not superficial obsequiousness. After all, if the god can tell you're just bowing and scraping to get on his good side rather than really meaning it, do you think he'll give that a pass?
I cannot worship such a god because I cannot love and respect any being who would condemn beings to eternal damnation for not worshiping him. It is something that, on a core level, I find morally abhorrent. I could pretend to worship him, sure. But what good is such pretense to Mr. Omniscient? That's not real worship at all.
quote:
What? Good and fair God shouldn't be worshipped? That's exactly the kind of God that should be worshipped if he wants it! I mean, if I don't worship it he's going to throw me in Hell? HELL PEOPLE, HELL! |
Contradiction. If God is good and fair, he wouldn't throw you into Hell for failing to worship him, would he?
quote:
Also, ungood and unfair God would be easier to please with a completely craven and self-interested display of worship. |
Again, do you think you can fool him?
quote:
I'm an utilitarian, and as such, if there was a God demanding worship or me going to hell, the only rational choice for me is to worship the God. It's a simple pleasure vs. pain equation, and pleasure comes to top. |
You wouldn't be worshipping, you'd be going through the motions out of fear and coercion. Unless you'd really love, in your heart, someone who threatens you with eternal death for failing to get down on your knees and kiss his butt.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kaak
|
|
it is foolish to say that it is both good and fair. the God gave you free will, but did not assure you that all your choices will be good. Free will must allow you to make bad decisions, and poor choices, or it would not be free. Therefore, your position is incorrect. It is fair for you not to wqorship him, but you cannot claim that it is good on the basis of free will alone.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Neutrino
I agree w/ Sava's view.
The conventional view of worship that I usually hear involves subordinates paying some form of tribute to 'higher beings'. |
look what the dictionary says
it is pretty easy
Jon Miller
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I think you're being rather loose with the term vis-a-vis a deity. The definition you gave is vague, as it doesn't note the inherent difference between a deity and a human being.
I love and adore my parents, but as equal human beings. That is by no means worship, is it? Do we worship everything we love and adore?
"Worship" in a religious sense involves an inferior status to the deity. After all, the Christian god supposedly loves and adores us. Does that mean god worships us?
If you want to stretch worship to apply to affection for someone whom I view as my equal, I suppose I wouldn't mind "worshipping" god. But I think that is rendering the word "worship" meaningless in the religious sense and using it more akin to colloquialism ("I worship the ground she walks on!")
The bottom line is I don't feel any urge to be inferior to anyone, no matter how powerful they are. If a deity insists I worship him or else go to Hell, then I certainly won't do so. That would be a coerced worship and unworthy of mine or anyone else's devotion. |
worship is loving and adoring a deity
so yes, the deity part matters
and the christian God deffinitely does not insist on worship or you going to hell
Jon Miller
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MikeH
One thing that always bothered me when I was a little kid about the whole God thing.
If he's a good/fair God then how come just a few people get to know about him and the chance to 'worship' him and therefore go to heaven. What about some tribe in the Amazonian rain forest who have never had contact with anyone who's heard about this God who is worshipped by a few people in the ancient middle east?
That seemed unfair. So then I wondered why their Sun god or variety of Gods would be any worse.
Eventually I decided they must all be true or all be made up by humans. Since there were too many contradictions for them all to be true... But I was only 10. I guess going to a Church School backfired on them, just made me see how contradictory and illogical it all was. |
you are simplifying things too much
in christianity, people who have had no contact with chrsitians (and even people who have had some contact) can still 'go to heaven'
what matters is following the light that you have been given
and I can't say that anyone is deffinitely not 'going to heaven', even though I can make bets on some people
Jon Miller
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
plainly I am disturbed by some people's views in this thread
I can see why many people don't like religions
it is because they have a false view of what God entails (particularly the christian god)
Jon Miller
|
|
| |
|
|
|
gunkulator
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller
in christianity, people who have had no contact with chrsitians (and even people who have had some contact) can still 'go to heaven'
|
Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
quote:
it is because they have a false view of what God entails (particularly the christian god) |
And you have no illusions. I see. Why must your god be my god? Can't I have my own set, or none? At least the Buddhists don't mind how you achieve enlightenment - you can have all the gods you want - but that Christian god sure is one jealous dude.
Unfortunately I've been told many many things about the Christian God, often contradictory, but each time by people absolutely assured of their righteousness. Other than eternal damnation, I have yet to hear a good reason to worship such a being, especially since it seems more likely to me that he doesn't even exist.
But I suppose if he did exist and he held over me the possibility of everlasting suffering, I guess I would get down on my knees and worship like crazy just out of sheer terror, although inside I would secretly hate him.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Neutrino
|
 |
Austin, Texas, USA
Jun 2002
time: 23:29
|
|
From dictionary.com :
wor·ship ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wûrshp)
n.
The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
Ardent devotion; adoration.
often Worship Chiefly British. Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.
v. wor·shiped, or wor·shipped wor·ship·ing, or wor·ship·ping wor·ships or wor·ships
v. tr.
To honor and love as a deity.
To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See Synonyms at revere1.
v. intr.
To participate in religious rites of worship.
To perform an act of worship.
If a deity existed, I would choose not to worship it .. befriend it and eventually love it maybe.
I don't like religions because I believe that the problems they cause far outweigh their benefits.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
gunkulator
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by monolith94
gunkalator, who is to say that your god isn't the same thing as my god???
Semantics mean nothing to spirituality. |
Quite so. However many men have more than a single god and some have none at all. Personally, I have always found prayer and worship to be nothing more than a conversation with myself. I am told to be "more open" as if the fault must lie with me. My own suspicion is that I am just bad at self-hypnosis.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29.
Apolyton Time is 00:29. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
08-07-2003 22:49
) with che. Id worship him if i got somethn out of it, like life after death (a good life after death, not hell)
not according to the Bible buddy...
|