09-07-2003 13:19									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I'd like to see you prove that.

Are the bible-belt states notorious for brain power or something else?
How do you explain decreasing religious involvement as nations develop and education becomes more widespread?
How do you compare how prominent religion is in inner-city youth and low-income areas especially with people who don't have much of an education, to people in suburbia who tend to have much more education?

A lot of coincidences, don't you think?

	09-07-2003 13:25									#62
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quote: How do you explain decreasing religious involvement as nations develop and education becomes more widespread?

How do you explain the rise of Islamic fundamentalism amongst educated young Arabs? You need to look at more examples that just Western nations if you want to claim some grand correlation between education and atheism. You might want some proof as well.

	09-07-2003 13:32									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten How do you explain the rise of Islamic fundamentalism amongst educated young Arabs?

I wasn't aware there was a rise in Islamic fundamentalism amongst educated young Arabs, particularly because almost all of the educated, young Arabs I know are far less strictly religious than their parents are. I think you're just interpreting it because it's gotten much more attention since 9-11 than it ever has before.

quote: You need to look at more examples that just Western nations if you want to claim some grand correlation between education and atheism. You might want some proof as well.

Proof of what? A correlation? It's an observational fact in the West.

I'm just casually pointing out there is a correlation, and it's up to people to determine why it's there. Of course religious people are going to try to find ways to dismiss it, like somehow thinking Islamic culture is anything comparable to Western culture.

	09-07-2003 13:37									#64
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Proof that God exists:

quote: 36. ARGUMENT FROM SHEER WILL (1) I DO believe in God! I DO believe in God! I do I do I do I DO believe in God! (2) Therefore, God exists.

quote: 55. ARGUMENT FROM ARGUMENTATION (1) God exists. (2) [atheist's counterargument] (3) Yes he does. (4) [atheist's counterargument] (5) Yes he does! (6) [atheist's counterargument] (7) YES HE DOES!!! (8) [atheist gives up and goes home] (9) Therefore, God exists.

	09-07-2003 13:42									#65
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quote: wasn't aware there was a rise in Islamic fundamentalism amongst educated young Arabs

No ****.

quote: I think you're just interpreting it because it's gotten much more attention since 9-11 than it ever has before.

There were articles about this phenomenon long before 9/11 happened. Just because you know nothing about a subject doesn't mean that I'm making it up.

quote: It's an observational fact in the West.

Not particularly. There's no real correlation between education level and religiousness; if you're searching for a correlation, looking to income levels or cultural backgrounds would be more fruitful. For example, African-Americans seem to be more religious than whites. Do you think this is because African-American society places a stronger emphasis on religion? Or is it because blacks are uneducated?

quote: Of course religious people are going to try to find ways to dismiss it, like somehow thinking Islamic culture is anything comparable to Western culture.

I'm not religious in the least. That being said, it wouldn't matter if I was religious or not, as religious people are just as educated and intelligent as their atheistic counterparts.

	09-07-2003 13:48									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten There were articles about this phenomenon long before 9/11 happened. Just because you know nothing about a subject doesn't mean that I'm making it up.

Oh, really?
Link would be cool, this is news to me.

quote: Not particularly. There's no real correlation between education level and religiousness; if you're searching for a correlation, looking to income levels or cultural backgrounds would be more fruitful. For example, African-Americans seem to be more religious than whites. Do you think this is because African-American society places a stronger emphasis on religion? Or is it because blacks are uneducated?

Blacks are, in general, less educated than whites in the US. That's why affirmative action is still around, whether you like it or not.

quote: I'm not religious in the least. That being said, it wouldn't matter if I was religious or not, as religious people are just as educated and intelligent as their atheistic counterparts.

It can happen, but in general as society becomes more educated, religious participation drops.

Unless you think we were more educated in 1900 when religion was far more prevalent?

Or you think that inner-city kids are better educated than their suburban counterparts?

There is without a doubt a correlation. The problem is pinpointing the cause. It may well have to do purely with income level, poor people don't have money to make them happy so they fall back on religion and use it as a way to rationalize the crappy hand they've been dealt in life.

It could be anything.

	09-07-2003 14:00									#67
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quote: Oh, really? Link would be cool, this is news to me.

One of the better articles I can remember was in "Foreign Affairs", but unfortunately you can't access Foreign Affairs articles online without a subscription. Guess you'll have to go to the library if you want to get educated on this subject.

quote: Blacks are, in general, less educated than whites in the US.

Well, I have to admit that you're consistent. I would suggest, however, that you never tell a black person that they are religious because they are uneducated. Insulting someone's religion and intelligence at the same time is never a wise course of action.

quote: but in general as society becomes more educated, religious participation drops.

Again, what proof do you have of this? It's true for most Western societies, but there is no proof that this is a universal truth for all societies. Developments in other societies (like Arab ones as per my example) seem to indicate otherwise.

quote: Or you think that inner-city kids are better educated than their suburban counterparts?

Kids in Iowa are better educated than in most parts of the US, yet Iowa would be considered a religious state. Why is that? It couldn't be a cultural reason as opposed to an educational one, now, could it?

quote: There is without a doubt a correlation.

I guess you believe saying this enough times will make it true. You certainly have more faith that I do.

	09-07-2003 14:25									#68
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Drake is right about the fundies having more traction amongst the educated classes in Arabia. It was noted quite a while ago, and those polls and studies were regurgitated after 9/11.