11-07-2003 01:22									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Apple doesn't want PC userss to have docks - that's one of their things to sway people over. Besides, a situation like this will only be publicized in hard-core techie places anyways... anybody who's mainstream will never even hear about this.

	11-07-2003 01:54									#32
	Put an end to popups!

But if only hard-core techie places care about this program, what good is it to stop them from using it, because they'd never buy a Mac in the first place?

	11-07-2003 01:59									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

SOME techies buy macs....
Just cause you don't like them

	11-07-2003 04:32									#34
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by MattH SOME techies buy macs.... Just cause you don't like them

Hardcore techies who use a dock-clone on Windows do not buy Macs. I assure you.

	11-07-2003 06:04									#35
	Put an end to popups!

I use windows, linux, and mac on a constant basis. Windows I use for gaming and typing, linux for coding/tech and Mac for graphics (I'm switching the coding to mac...). While I have no personal preference, it says a lot that a windows user has copied the Mac UI design.

	11-07-2003 06:09									#36
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There are also Windows feature clones/themes for Macs and Linux, what's your point?

The important point is Windows' Dock is not fundamentally stupid like Apple's, in that it doesn't maintain launched programs -- it simply launches them. That's all the dock is good at.

	11-07-2003 06:19									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

How is the Apple dock stupid? The open programs have a little arrow underneath their names. You click on the icon an they move to the front...

	11-07-2003 06:21									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It makes multiple instances of a program clumsy and stupidly impossible.
It mixes programs-that-are-running with programs-that-are-not-running.
It is more difficult to see what, exactly, is running than it is in Windows.
It doesn't show any text to describe what the application is, and what's worse, it doesn't have an entry for all windows open, just applications. Slower to use.

It's a very stupid design like that.

	11-07-2003 06:36									#39
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yeah, the no windows design is rather dumb. It seems that it's being changed in Panther (took them long enough...). The icons are easy to recognize (how hard is it to tell Photoshop from IE or PageMaker- not very). I don't really find the arrows hard to see, but that's just a personal thing.

	11-07-2003 06:46									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Apple doesn't want PC userss to have docks - that's one of their things to sway people over. Besides, a situation like this will only be publicized in hard-core techie places anyways... anybody who's mainstream will never even hear about this.

Duh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh Doo-doo-de-do-de-doo. That wins the profound statement of the week award.

The people who will here of this are third party developers (including myself) who aren't enamored of only supporting specific platforms, but really aren't enamored of getting jacked around by somebody's giant lawyers looking for excuses to claim infringement.

What "anybody who's mainstream" will never hear about is the overall level of innovation and extended usability that active third party developers can provide, because a lot of those third party developers will say "**** it, why bother supporting this platform, because they're a bunch of *******s and there's no money in it"

	11-07-2003 10:20									#41
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: It's a very stupid design like that.

If the Dock has such a stupid design, then why are you so pissed off that Apple has killed the PC clone of it?

	11-07-2003 10:24									#42
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Asher Apple drives many of their 3rd party developers away with their first-party products. It's the exact same problem Nintendo has. And neither of them seems bright enough to do anything about it. Nintendo and Apple both have shrinking marketshare, so I wonder how long it'll take them to clue in this probably isn't the best route? Nintendo's a pretty mean company too, remember when they sued Blockbuster to try to get them to stop renting games?

And your buddy M$ does the exact same thing, Asher, only they suck badly at it.

Apple has a new strategy for the early 21st Century: Make the Mac the perfect hub for consumer gadgets such as digital cameras, PDAs, cell phones, digital video cameras and MP3 Players, etc. It's called the digital hub strategy, and it only extends to consumer electronics. Get used to it. Apple has got to do something to become successful.

This has been going on for quite awhile, Asher. Where have you been?

	11-07-2003 18:26									#43
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: It's a very stupid design like that. If the Dock has such a stupid design, then why are you so pissed off that Apple has killed the PC clone of it?

As I've already mentioned, the clone only cloned the functional part of the Dock -- the application launch stuff.

quote: And your buddy M$ does the exact same thing, Asher, only they suck badly at it.

Hmm. Why would you say they suck badly at it?
* Asher looks at marketshare figures.

quote: Apple has a new strategy for the early 21st Century: Make the Mac the perfect hub for consumer gadgets such as digital cameras, PDAs, cell phones, digital video cameras and MP3 Players, etc. It's called the digital hub strategy, and it only extends to consumer electronics. Get used to it. Apple has got to do something to become successful. This has been going on for quite awhile, Asher. Where have you been?

Maybe I shouldn't tell you that Apple isn't the only one doing that. Don't you remember the Windows XP commercials? It's the same thing.

Not to mention MS goes a lot further with the Media Centre Edition of Windows...

	11-07-2003 18:48									#44
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

They do? I don't see driver install disks for OSX . I don't see DRM. I don't see a media player that monitors and sends data...

	11-07-2003 19:09									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by MattH They do? I don't see driver install disks for OSX .

Never bought a new video card for the Mac, have you?

quote: I don't see DRM.

Hello? iTunes store? DRM haven.

quote: I don't see a media player that monitors and sends data...

Yes, you do. How do you think iTunes gets track information?

	11-07-2003 22:20									#46
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

nevermind. edit. edit.

Last edited by Mr. Nice Guy on 11-07-2003 at 22:53

	11-07-2003 22:49									#47
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Asher Hmm. Why would you say they suck badly at it? * Asher looks at marketshare figures.

Apple's small market share has nothing to do with Mac OS X and everything to do with Motorola and the crappy hand they have dealt them. Because Moto cut it's R&D way back, that led to slower overpriced computers for Apple. Nowadays, Moto is looking to sell it's semiconductor business, which is the main thing that is dragging the company down right now. That's all about to change very soon. In fact, Apple's transistion to the G5 is already taking place. In the meantime, over the last few years Apple has done an outstanding job innovating Mac OS X and it's other software through the downturn (worthy of recognition in the archives of computer history)! This may not have led them to success, yet (no thanks to Moto), but it has kept them in business.

quote: Maybe I shouldn't tell you that Apple isn't the only one doing that. Don't you remember the Windows XP commercials? It's the same thing. Not to mention MS goes a lot further with the Media Centre Edition of Windows...

One thing about Mac OS X first-party applications such as iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, and iDVD is that they all can work together to accomplish many tasks. These applications, although separate, pretty much work as one. They are all virtually integrated into each other. Try that with Windows. This is what makes Mac OS X first-party applications so great! And Apple has already been doing this for years, so I can imagine that they are already way ahead of Windows XP Media Center Edition.

Mac OS X is a very straight-forward operating system. You may say that it lacks many configuration options, Asher, but that's all for good reason. The thing is, Asher, is that many people don't want to configure their computer. For one thing, it's hard to understand for most people. And for another, it can be very time consuming, especially for creative professionals who have much more important things to do. This I believe, is the same thing that M$ has been trying to tackle for so long, and sadly have been way behind Apple in this respect since the IBM PC became popular. I can understand why techies like yourself might have a lot of fun doing some configuring! But please don't think negatively about those who are the complete opposite.

The Mac is not just a whole 'nother computer, it's a whole 'nother culture, Asher. Things are done very different on the other side of things; I guess you could say it's just another way of thinking. And perhaps this other culture just doesn't fit your lifestyle or is beyond your understanding, Asher. That's all there is to it. Just be about it and don't judge.

	12-07-2003 07:49									#48
	Get a bigger avatar today!

bump

	12-07-2003 08:03									#49
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i find windows a very straight-forward operating system. i also find linux a very straight-forward operating system, once you learn its ropes.

the former hides a lot of its configuration options. the latter one lays them all out in front of you.

many of us techies love computers of all colors. we're bi-digital.
why exclude yourself from half of the computing world? all of them are lovely, beautiful, and far easier to deal with than humans.

	12-07-2003 08:08									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed why exclude yourself from half of the computing world? all of them are lovely, beautiful, and far easier to deal with than humans.

It's all a matter of preference. Personally, I am sick and tired of the Wintel world. 'Nuff said!

	12-07-2003 08:20									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

hm.. i'm not bisexual, but i would say then it's like swearing off boys. macs are more feminine (expensive, but prettier), so...

i still like computers of all types. server rooms are beautiful.

	12-07-2003 08:23									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed . why exclude yourself from half of the computing world?

Bitter experience

	12-07-2003 08:25									#53
	Increase Your PM Length

a pity. it's like swearing off girls simply because one broke your heart.

	12-07-2003 08:29									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed a pity. it's like swearing off girls simply because one broke your heart.

If she'd broken your heart 3 or 4 times a day for a month I think you'd have had enough.

	12-07-2003 08:34									#55
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Cloud9 Apple's small market share has nothing to do with Mac OS X and everything to do with Motorola and the crappy hand they have dealt them. Because Moto cut it's R&D way back, that led to slower overpriced computers for Apple. Nowadays, Moto is looking to sell it's semiconductor business, which is the main thing that is dragging the company down right now. That's all about to change very soon. In fact, Apple's transistion to the G5 is already taking place. In the meantime, over the last few years Apple has done an outstanding job innovating Mac OS X and it's other software through the downturn (worthy of recognition in the archives of computer history)! This may not have led them to success, yet (no thanks to Moto), but it has kept them in business. One thing about Mac OS X first-party applications such as iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, and iDVD is that they all can work together to accomplish many tasks. These applications, although separate, pretty much work as one. They are all virtually integrated into each other. Try that with Windows. This is what makes Mac OS X first-party applications so great! And Apple has already been doing this for years, so I can imagine that they are already way ahead of Windows XP Media Center Edition. Mac OS X is a very straight-forward operating system. You may say that it lacks many configuration options, Asher, but that's all for good reason. The thing is, Asher, is that many people don't want to configure their computer. For one thing, it's hard to understand for most people. And for another, it can be very time consuming, especially for creative professionals who have much more important things to do. This I believe, is the same thing that M$ has been trying to tackle for so long, and sadly have been way behind Apple in this respect since the IBM PC became popular. I can understand why techies like yourself might have a lot of fun doing some configuring! But please don't think negatively about those who are the complete opposite. The Mac is not just a whole 'nother computer, it's a whole 'nother culture, Asher. Things are done very different on the other side of things; I guess you could say it's just another way of thinking. And perhaps this other culture just doesn't fit your lifestyle or is beyond your understanding, Asher. That's all there is to it. Just be about it and don't judge.

This is like listening to people who say that EU has an equivalent military to the US cause they might one day buy some better crap.

	12-07-2003 08:35									#56
	Increase Your PM Length

jezebel (my main wintel machine) is beautifully steady, hasn't crashed on me as long as i can remember, suffers no slow days, and purrs, always turned on, in my room.

so i can safely say that i don't quite understand why wintels break everyone else hearts so often.

	12-07-2003 08:39									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Asher Apple drives many of their 3rd party developers away with their first-party products. It's the exact same problem Nintendo has.

Am I the only one who found this statement ironic when it came from a MS fanboy?

* Meanwhile, MSFT destroys more third party developers by includingintegrating more "features" into Windows.

	12-07-2003 08:40									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Apple does that very same thing, UR...

	12-07-2003 08:40									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed jezebel (my main wintel machine) is beautifully steady, hasn't crashed on me as long as i can remember, suffers no slow days, and purrs, always turned on, in my room. so i can safely say that i don't quite understand why wintels break everyone else hearts so often.

Actually this was back in the days of Windows 95. I actually really liked 3.1 which I ran for years on my old 386. The people at work gave me a Wintel to write some coursebooks on and it was a nightmare. So they gave me a Powermac to replace it. I found that the OS suited me a lot better than Windows and it rarely froze (now it never does).

No Macintosh has ever mangled or lost my data, cost me money or time, done strange things to the format of my documents, or caused me to wait for an hour on a helpdesk line. So why change?

	12-07-2003 08:41									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

besides, the risk for third party developers is greater in the mac world. since the market share is smaller, there's a smaller pool to make money from. when apple takes your product and integrates it, poof, you're out.

with windows, you at least have a fighting chance. maybe not much of one, but it's not a guaranteed kill. look at symantec and it's disk software... or roxio and nero and their cd software...