10-07-2003 20:36									#31
	Put an end to popups!

excuse me... not just their kids but their middle school age friends too...

	10-07-2003 20:38									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Speer: That crosses the line because she went and rented a hotel room. This is obviously different from a family graduation party under the supervision of adults.

Not to mention the Vast difference between middle school kids and High School Graduates.

	10-07-2003 20:39									#33
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quote: middle school age

the kids graduated high school... read more carefully.

quote: The only place that I see a contradiction is in the SlowwHand Fantasy Land

you just earned a seat on the boat to Cuba you TRAITOR!

	10-07-2003 20:40									#34
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Read the article. Focus. Try really hard.
It says she was charged with supplying alcohol to minors.
It doesn't say for supplying to her own son solely.

I can tell. This is one of those deals where it would be like me talking to a post.
So just forget it.

	10-07-2003 20:41									#35
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Sava:

the ones in Bucks County in my article were in middle school

i'll quote...

quote: According to the Bucks County district attorney, Allerton picked up the teens, two of which were her own teenagers, and drove them to the Warrington Lodge for what she called "a special treat" after the teens attended a middle-school dance.

read more carefully...

	10-07-2003 20:46									#36
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quote: the ones in Bucks County in my article were in middle school

Hey don't blame me if you are talking about something else. Specify whether or not you are talking about the topic story because that's what I'm referring to. I already mentioned the lady in your story crossed the line and was wrong.

quote: I can tell. This is one of those deals where it would be like me talking to a post. So just forget it.

don't get discouraged Slowwy... you never see me waver in my attempts to change your mind. I'm surprised by your defeatist attitude. Anyways, I'm not saying that it's okay for parents to buy alcohol for kids to party... there's a clear difference in this scenario than the one in the topic story. This was a family graduation party with dozens of adults in supervision. And for all we know, the kids weren't even drunk. They were just chilling in their house, drinking some beer. This wasn't a raunchy party, and there were no other laws broken. I'm surprised you support big government playing parent. I thought you were a conservative.

	10-07-2003 20:47									#37
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand So just forget it.

Easily done on the merits.

	10-07-2003 20:49									#38
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you want to legitimize underage drinking then why don't you legitimize my story?

	10-07-2003 20:50									#39
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A few years ago me and a friend had a party where there where some 18 and 19 years olds drinking. The police were called out there and we were given a warning to keep it inside and not disturb the neighbors. So I guess I can't really condemn them too hard except for the fact that it just wasn't their kids they were allowing to drink. They took the choice away from the other kids parents. If they didnt obtain permission.

	10-07-2003 20:51									#40
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quote: you want to legitimize underage drinking then why don't you legitimize my story?

wrong... I want to legitimize parents' rights to allow their own children to drink in their own home. I did give credence to your story. Do you want a medal?

	10-07-2003 20:56									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber They took the choice away from the other kids parents. If they didnt obtain permission.

I agree.

This whole argument boils down to PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY. When the parents are acting responsibly (as it appears that they were in the original article) then these laws are simply an usurpation of parental authority.

In Speer's story, these things could be covered by reckless endangerment without the need for a specific underage drinking law.

	10-07-2003 20:57									#42
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quote: In Speer's story, these things could be covered by reckless endangerment without the need for a specific underage drinking law.

I agree and gave him credit. I don't know why he keeps ragging on me.

	10-07-2003 20:59									#43
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by the way, how common is underage drinking? people here make it seem like 95% of people under 21 drink constantly but I never really see that. most of the people i see drinking are older men

	10-07-2003 21:02									#44
	Re: Parental supervised underage drinking... opinions? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Sava http://www.dailyherald.com/news_story.asp?intid=3781223 Kids are going to drink regardless of laws and what their parents do.

says you.

	10-07-2003 21:02									#45
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quote: most of the people i see drinking are older men

are you in college yet?

	10-07-2003 21:03									#46
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quote: says you.

says millions of highschool and college kids.

	10-07-2003 21:05									#47
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college seems to have lots and lots of people who drink socially.

not to the point of getting drunk, just a beer every now and then or a glass of some cocktail.

	10-07-2003 21:05									#48
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sava, you havent talked to the people that are part of the parenting program i devised, which involves hard labor, sunrise wake times, sunset bed times, 2 meals a day, and a bullwhip.

	10-07-2003 21:06									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sava says millions of highschool and college kids.

Precisely. Many underaged kids ask their older friends to get booze for them.

	10-07-2003 21:06									#50
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no... but here's why...

quote: Among ninth graders, binge drinking was reported by 27% of non-Hispanic white students and 30% of Hispanic students, but only 15% of African American students and 5% of Asian-Pacific Islander students.

tsk tsk... puerto ricans drink too much...


anyway what about the democratic process?

quote: An overwhelming majority of Americans (96%) are concerned about underage drinking. In fact, a majority support measures that would help reduce teen drinking, such as stricter controls on alcohol sales, advertising, and promotion.

	10-07-2003 21:06									#51
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According to a Michigan state study, somewhere between 50 and 60% of students from grade 8 to 12 were drunk within the last 30 days when the study was conducted. I imagine the statistics get correspondingly higher with age. Sorry for the shoddy link

http://www.lcb.state.pa.us/edu/resources/NUDS.asp

	10-07-2003 21:07									#52
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quote: sava, you havent talked to the people that are part of the parenting program i devised, which involves hard labor, sunrise wake times, sunset bed times, 2 meals a day, and a bullwhip.

and those dozen or so people accurately represent millions of others?

quote: college seems to have lots and lots of people who drink socially. not to the point of getting drunk, just a beer every now and then or a glass of some cocktail.

drinking is drinking... they're both the same in the eyes of the "law".

	10-07-2003 21:08									#53
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Anyone who thinks underage kids will not drink simply because it's against the law is living in a seriously sheltered world.

	10-07-2003 21:08									#54
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the weird thing is i didnt start drinking until i was out of high school...

	10-07-2003 21:09									#55
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Kirn:

that link shows a pennsylvanian site and it says just over 50% of 12th graders were drunk within the last 30 days

	10-07-2003 21:09									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Sava and those dozen or so people accurately represent millions of others?

talk to me after i get into power

	10-07-2003 21:09									#57
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Absolutely. Where's Buck Birdseed? I seem to remember him telling me that in Sweden where the alcohol laws are incredibly tight they had to drink illegal moonshine.

	10-07-2003 21:09									#58
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quote: An overwhelming majority of Americans (96%) are concerned about underage drinking. In fact, a majority support measures that would help reduce teen drinking, such as stricter controls on alcohol sales, advertising, and promotion.

I support those measures also... again... there's a difference between parental supervised social drinking and rauckus, uncontrolled, partying. The latter should be controlled.

	10-07-2003 21:10									#59
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quote: An overwhelming majority of Americans (96%) are concerned about underage drinking. In fact, a majority support measures that would help reduce teen drinking, such as stricter controls on alcohol sales, advertising, and promotion.

Concerned about underage drinking is awfully generic. I would be interested to see what precisely they are concerned about, and then I'd be interested to see how the questions regarding 'measures that would help to reduce underage drinking' were put forth.

	10-07-2003 21:12									#60
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quote: Anyone who thinks underage kids will not drink simply because it's against the law is living in a seriously sheltered world.

quote: the weird thing is i didnt start drinking until i was out of high school...

ditto... I might have gotten drunk once or twice in high school, but not that often. Certainly not as often as in college.

quote: talk to me after i get into power

okay Mr. Fawell....