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Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:03
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Parental supervised underage drinking... opinions? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

http://www.dailyherald.com/news_story.asp?intid=3781223
quote:
Woman fined $35 for letting kids drink
By Christy Gutowski Daily Herald Legal Affairs Writer
Posted July 10, 2003


Some called it sensible parenting. Others, such as the police, weren't so convinced.

A Naperville husband and wife who stirred the public debate appeared in court Wednesday for the first time since being cited for allowing underage drinking in their home.

In a plea deal, Kathleen Connor was fined $35 after she admitted providing alcohol during her son's high school graduation party. Similar charges against her husband, James, were dropped.

The couple, both 52, were cited early June 2 after they called police to ask about city parking regulations. They had sought permission to leave cars parked overnight on the street because, police said, they didn't want their underage party goers drinking and driving. The parents even took the teens' keys to ensure they didn't leave.

Police didn't have a problem with the parked cars, but they crashed the party on the 1300 block of Middleburg Road after learning of the underage alcohol consumption.

Police also cited seven youths, ages 17 to 20, including the Connors' son, Patrick, for underage drinking.

The couple's legal woes became fodder for talk-radio callers and newspaper editorials as parental responsibility was a hot topic in the wake of the Glenbrook North High School hazing scandal. Callers were divided. Police took a much harsher stance.

"They thought they were doing the right thing," Naperville police Sgt. Joel Truemper said after the Connors were cited. "Needless to say, that's not the right thing to do."

DuPage Associate Judge Daniel Guerin presided over the plea deal. The Connors declined comment Wednesday.

Charges against the family were among more than 40 police made in Naperville that weekend - the height of high school graduation season. Another Naperville woman, Madeleine Ward, 54, also was cited on suspicion she allowed 14 minors to drink alcohol during a party at her home. She appears in court later this summer.
So what is the verdict? Was this woman acting properly in providing alcohol during the graduation party? Or was she doing something wrong and irresponsible?

my 2 cents:

I think there is nothing wrong with this. Number one, the government... even local government... should not be playing parent. I disagree with the 21 drinking age. If 18-21 year olds are responsible enough to drive vehicles, enter into legal contracts, vote, own guns, DIE FOR OUR COUNTRY; then they should be allowed to consume alcohol.

Second, even if the drinking age is 21, I see nothing wrong with allowing parents to provide alcohol at a party... especially a major event like a graduation. Kids are going to drink regardless of laws and what their parents do. And by this party being under the parents' supervision, they can monitor the behavior and perhaps even teach the kids about responsible drinking. And even if the party gets rowdy... at least they aren't DRIVING! The kids just spent 13 years in school... I think they deserve to celebrate... and I think the parents have the right to decide whether or not they can drink alcohol.

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
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Mar 2002
time: 05:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:05 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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Undergae drinkig si greatt! I Didit all teh time and it nevver did me ayn harm!

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:07 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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Seriously, I have no moral objection to underage drinking, however the bottom line is that it is against the law.
For the parents to knowingly supply alcohol to kids under 21 is illegal. They knew that. They did it anyway. They got caught. They got a VERY small fine.

Where's the problem?

Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:08
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quote:
Where's the problem?
This discussion is about whether or not this should be against the law in the first place.

I liked your first post.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:09
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Sava, Your 2 cents worth is also my 2 cents worth. And it is right on the money!

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:10 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
This discussion is about whether or not this should be against the law in the first place.


IMHO yes it should be against the law. However, I think it should not be punished severely (the small fine in this case seems appropriate).

I also think the legal drinking age should be 18, but I guess that's another argument.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
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Sep 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:11 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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She didn't just supply alcohol to own child, but to others.
That should be a crime, and it evidently is .
My 2 cents.

Stefan Härtel is offline Stefan Härtel
King
Eddie's best friend
Jul 1999
time: 06:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:11
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Well... in Germany, "soft" alcohols (Beer, Wine) are allowed from 16 on, and you're allowed to drink anything you like from 18 on, and it didn't do any serious harm (I mean, the people are disgusting without that too, alcohol doesn't take much influence on that IMHO).

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:11
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quote:
Sava, Your 2 cents worth is also my 2 cents worth. And it is right on the money!


quote:
I also think the legal drinking age should be 18, but I guess that's another argument.
No buddy, that's this argument.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:14
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Cheers, Dad!

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:15
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
She didn't just supply alcohol to own child, but to others.
That should be a crime, and it evidently is .
My 2 cents.


When the alternative is for the kids to say "We can't go to so and so's house to party so lets just drive around and have a few" Then it becomes a stupid law. That being said, they should have gotten permission from the other kids parents before supplying them with alcohol. Once that is obtained, then this type of situation is preferable to any other than abstinance by underage drinkers (an unlikely event).

Furthermore, citing the parents for supplying alcohol to their own child in their own house while the child was under their strict supervision is, IMO, a huge usurping of parental rights.

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:17
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I need a clapping smiley for that PLATO... beautifully said.

Soul Survivor is offline Soul Survivor
Settler
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May 2003
time: 05:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:18
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Kids are going to drink one way or another, at least this way its less likely something tragic is going to happen!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:20
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What's the problem? I started drinking beer when I was 4.

Starchild is offline Starchild
Emperor
a raving alcoholic drama queen with a penchant for the biosciences
Jan 1970
time: 00:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:20
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omg, a 17 year old had a beer! eeeek! Society is doomed!

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
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Sep 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:21 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Beautifully said, Sava?
He agreed that the parents should have discussed it with the other parents, then turned around and argued the other way.
He sounds like you. No wonder you say "beautifully said".
I'm not up to debating meatheads today.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:29
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it's illegal now, but it's not like anybody really follows it... look at college...

Park Avenue is offline Park Avenue
Emperor
Liberal and defender of freedoms for the people
Oct 1999
time: 05:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:22
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I don't see the point in drinking in front of parents anyway. The only time I get proper drunk is when there's no chance they'd see me in that state and there's little point drinking if you aren't going to get yourself drunk.

Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:25
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Got spare money?

quote:
I'm not up to debating meatheads today.
It's actually quite pathetic you resort to calling PLATO and myself names just because you are incapable of rational debate.



next?

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:28
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Well.. as it is illegal, then it must be for parents to knowingly hand alcohol to their kids be illegal too.
And buying other underaged too.. that's even more illegal. Stupid law or not, it's illegal.

But I think 21 is a bit high... 18 is ok IMO.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:30
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
He agreed that the parents should have discussed it with the other parents, then turned around and argued the other way.


Uh...Where?

CerberusIV is offline CerberusIV
King

Oct 2002
time: 05:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:30 Visit CerberusIV's homepage!
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Oh my god! My parents are criminals!!!!!

Seriously, one of my relatives started giving me alcoholic drinks aged 11. By age 14 my parents were taking me to pubs and buying me beer (we did sit outside in the beer garden so the landlord could pretend he didn't know).

The alcohol laws in the US, and the petty minded enforcement of them, are simply stupid.

Time your laws reflected the fact that kids grow up faster than adults sometimes would like.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:32 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by PLATO1003


When the alternative is for the kids to say "We can't go to so and so's house to party so lets just drive around and have a few" Then it becomes a stupid law. That being said, they should have gotten permission from the other kids parents before supplying them with alcohol. Once that is obtained, then this type of situation is preferable to any other than abstinance by underage drinkers (an unlikely event).

Furthermore, citing the parents for supplying alcohol to their own child in their own house while the child was under their strict supervision is, IMO, a huge usurping of parental rights.


Here. You're worse off than Sava.
Congratulations.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:33
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He didn't contradict himself, he just set up conditions in which supplying alcohol is acceptable.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
Emperor
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:33
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http://www.nbc10.com/news/2259028/detail.html

quote:
Police: Bus Driver Hosted Teen Drinking Party
Woman Alleged Rented Room For "Special Treat"

POSTED: 7:24 p.m. EDT June 9, 2003
UPDATED: 1:55 p.m. EDT June 10, 2003

A local mom who is a school-bus driver is accused of throwing an underage drinking party at a Warrington motel.

According to police, Jacqueline Allerton, 40, of Horsham, rented a room in the Warrington Lodge for six teenagers on Saturday, May 17.

Slideshow: Bus Driver Accused Of Hosting Drinking Party


Police say she rented a room to host a party for her children and their underage friends.

According to the Bucks County district attorney, Allerton picked up the teens, two of which were her own teenagers, and drove them to the Warrington Lodge for what she called "a special treat" after the teens attended a middle-school dance.

The county then alleged that Allerton provided four cases of alcoholic beverages for an overnight party with three girls and three boys.

"She was passing out alcohol to everybody," said one teen who was at the party. "She walked up to anyone saying, 'Do you need any more?'"

The teen interviewed by NBC 10 said alcohol wasn't the only thing Allerton provided.

"Her son had a bunch of marijuana with him. And yes, obviously she bought it for him because I don't think he would be able to afford stuff like that," the teen said.

The district attorney is still investigating those reports of marijuana use.

The parents of the children thought the kids were going to the dance and that they would be going to Allerton's home for a sleep over.

"How could a mother be this way?" asks Donna Price. "Every mother that I speak to feels the same way."

Incidentally, Allerton is also a school-bus driver for the Hatboro-Horsham School District.

On Monday, the school district said that Allerton underwent criminal-history and child-abuse background checks. "Mrs. Allerton fulfilled all necessary criteria for her position with our district," the district said in a press release.

Allerton was arrested for furnishing alcohol to minors. She was out Monday night on bail and couldn't be reached for comment by NBC 10.


yeah those are some great people who give alcohol to their kids...

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:34
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I think it's only a myth that it's safer to drink inside the house. It sends a clear message, that parents approve the drinking. They might go and say 'but you can't do this on your own, this is the catch'. Anyone thinks it'll work? Of course not..

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
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May 1999
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  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:36 Visit MikeH's homepage!
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US seems to have a very odd attitude to drink to us Europeans. I mean, they tried to ban it once, inconcievable here.

I was sneaking around drinking at peoples houses, in fields/parks etc from the age of 15. It was seen as normal. If the police came to a party with a load of drunk underage kids they'd chuck us out and tell us to go home.

Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:36
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Speer: That crosses the line because she went and rented a hotel room. This is obviously different from a family graduation party under the supervision of adults.

Kirnwaffen is offline Kirnwaffen
Warlord
Tryin' hard to chill in the city of Dis
Jul 2000
time: 22:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:36
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I'm in agreement with Plato. While other parents should have been consulted, the parents most certainly should not have been cited for providing their own son with alcohol. Apparently, the police lost sight of the fact that, since the party was supervised, a significant number of teenagers who would likely have been drunk anyway, were prevented from driving.

On a side note, I think that it is ridiculous that we allow people to drive before we allow them to drink, but that's another argument.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:29
  Old Post 10-07-2003 20:36
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand


Here. You're worse off than Sava.
Congratulations.


WTF are you talking about? Perhaps you misread the second part about their own child?

The only place that I see a contradiction is in the SlowwHand Fantasy Land

 
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