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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:29
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I've been watching this program on tv for about 30 minutes now and it makes me sick. Self defense, I can't remember what discipline this is, but looks like generic class (white gi's and lots of hassling with hands and legs). I say this is a disgrace. These guys are all 'come here, join us, you never know what's going to happen. You learn self defense and you can defeat attackers with knives!'. YEAH SURE! They teach everything wrong if you want to really kick ass and be realistic about it.
1. technique training is wrong. No force or power is used. I'm not saying they should do with full power, but they don't use it at all. So it's all just 'ok if I pull you here, in reality you WOULD fall'. Yeah sure what ever you say mr sensei, I believe you. How do you know how it is really done, if you never do it with power? This creates myths to students and only will hurt them when they're in trouble and think they're all that, and finds out it didn't work.
2. Exhibitions. Again, more myths created. 'Look at me I can crush few bricks! Imagine what this would do to opponent!'.. Yeah sure. What ever mr. sensei. Nothing to do with reality, done to impress uneducated people. Only hurts and brainwashes people who are serious about learning self defense.
3. Sparring. No sparring.. just little slapping. So you never really test your skills in REALITY. No one cares about techniques, if you can't implement them when someone smashes you. And strategies fly right out of the window when someone starts whailing on you. Believe me, they do.
Now, it's not all bad. It's actually pretty good. You get a nice hobby and sweat, maybe make new friends. That's always good. Also you learn something, but unfortunately it doesn't help you too much. Maybe psychologically, but hey that's enough for most people.
I'm not talking about schoolyard bullies. I'm talking about bad folks who come just to kick your butt, and are not physically challenged to begin with. And what was the talk about 'defending against armed attackers, multiple attackers' etc? Oh man, that's just like giving a big gun to 6 year old kid and say it's a toy.
There are of course more advanced folks and they are more able to defend themselves and are better, but it takes years. It's the not so serious about it folks who I'm talking about.
I wonder if I can sue instructor who taught stuff to my kid and he's faced with armed attacker, and tries to do what he learned in the class? He gave my kid illusion of being better than he really is. And that is the most dangerous thing, over estimating yourself. That's when you hurt yourself.
So I call all these people being not responsible illusion artists.
It's bunch of hypocrites. They don't even teach you, if they even know themselves the real tactics of dangerous situation. You don't go for a flashy high kick, or slow throw. You go for the eyes, and take the dude out.
Also they have this thing about passivity. It's not good to be passive if you are in danger. You either get out and make a run for it, or engage and be the one doing all the aggressive moves.
It is a good hobby, but creating illusions is dangerous. Are these folks (instructors) responsible when their students get their butts kicked, or even killed?
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:29
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It's all based on 'this is what I do'. It's just not realistic!
You can't plan it what's going to happen. You have to be versatile in the whole game. You must be able to take real punishment, and deliver back. You must be able to trade strikes standing up, you must be able to take the opponent down and punish him. Wrestle, submit, it's all part of the REAL game. I don't see any of that in these generic stuff. It's a bluff, it's an illusion, it's a joke. And that's why it's dangerous.
edit: An example. Last weekend I was at my buddies house. His little brother is teasing me and hitting me. Then I joke and say 'I'm going to slam you if you hit me again' and then he got excited, so I promised to show him few slams. Now he has backround of karate and tae kwon do. We went backyard where there was a matress (so it would be safe, dangerous move). He starts rebelling and acting like Daniel La Russo, so I slam him to the matress. Every wrestler can do that to your butt, so after sensei has instructed what to do, and theres former wrestler and he comes, picks you up and slams, you know that's really dangerous. Is the instructor responsible? 'I kick him in the knee before he shoots in' yeah what ever.. too many movies and senseis.
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VJ
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Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:29
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I call them "Kapteeni Isomuna"'s, all tough, all proud, getting pissed from nothing, getting others pissed from nothing -- "Hey, don't %#$& with me, I'm a professional fighter, I'll kick your a#]", you aren't some übermensch-John Woo if you've taken few courses of, Thai Boxing, for example. They're often quite dangerous when they're drunk and especially if the people around them are drunk.
Well, let such dips&¤t proles hurt themselves - they deserve a fate like that by such acting... IMO.
quote:
To me, it's the same thing if you take shooting classes and the instructors tells you things that are not true in the real world. 'Yeah this is how you shoot with your eyes closed standing on your head'. That's irresponsible and gets you sued. I don't know why it doesn't apply to these people. I mean if you teach how to dance, it doesn't hurt anyone if they think they're good. But if you teach someone self defense and it's not realistic.. it's dangerous, and should not be a legit business |
So, you're instructing your fellow 'polytoners with threads like this? Slightly impressive
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Vesayen
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Pekka........... I really couldnt agree more. I've been doing Ju-Jitsu for years and I always thought the "form/technique" training was total and utter crap.........
It does have a plus side though. It shows you general motions on how to defend yourself which helps, more importantly it can GREATLY improve your reflexes and physical shape, which can certaintly help in a fight LOL!
In a hand to hand fight I think I could come out on top against most people I know, based on what I have learned, but also the conditioning done to my body from it, but if someone pulls a knife, I am going to kindly give them my wallet, LOL!
After three years of it though, I went to a new dojo, one which focuses more on how you REALLY fight, and not the BS form stuff-I liked that much more, especially because we had full contact sparing(The rule being: If you hurt someone bad your kicked out and left to the legal retaliation of your victims-the worst that ever happened was a few broken fingers and sprains, no one ever sued and no one hurt anyone bad enough to be kicked out) heh!
Last edited by Vesayen on 12-07-2003 at 18:21
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12-07-2003 17:33
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