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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:29
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In the continuing saga of GhengisFarb's attempts to get this Citystates concept off the ground....
Recap and breakdown:
To have a PTW Demogame based on 3-4 Citystate Teams that work together and yet strive to one up and dominate the other three. Have the Citystates scheme and plot against one another in the open and in secret and allow participants to be able to freely switch allegiances from one to the another as the game plays out.
Challenges:
How to provide an adequate opponent for the Citystates.
Idea I had this morning was to have the "Barbarians" played by actual people. We could make Settlers unbuildible by the Citystates but start them out with four each. This would give each Citystate a citystate and three "colonies" and all further settlements would have to be captured from the Barbarians. Each Citystate would be able to build a Forum in the Citystate that acts as a Hospital (size 3) and makes 10 happy faces. Thus the citystates would have larger productive cities and the advantage of knowledge of their sister Citystates while the Barbarians would have the ability to expand and build settlements.
The Citystates would be Democracy teams and we would need voluteers to be the Barbarians.
I was thinking Egypt, Rome, Greece, and Carthage could be the Citystate teams while we have four people play the Barbarians of Mongols, Celts, Scandinavians, and Germans (the German Scientific trait would be replaced with the Religious trait - their barbarians and not upposed to be more civilized than the Citystates).
Any discussion?
Potential Barbarian Leaders:
GhengisFarb - the GhengisBarbs
redstar1 - the northern Builder Barbs
FrustratedPoet - the Barbarian Bards
ZargonX - the southern Builder Barbs
Potential Citystate Citizens
Egypt
UnOrthOdOx - Willing to run as leader
Rome
Sir Ralph aka Ralphius Ceasar
Greece
Carthage
Generic Citizens
Octavian X
Kloreep
Potential Rule Restraints:
1) Citystates play in concert, the four Citystates are allowed to actively discuss one anothers turns in the same forum and are allowed full knowledge of each others maps and what not.
2) The Barbarians are there to provide an outside opponent for the Democracy teams. They are not allowed to share maps outside the game (so they wouldn't have access to one another's maps until Mapmaking). They also have no forums are team they are simply Barbarian Despots.
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 18-07-2003 at 18:20
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:29
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I plan to be a barbarian just to talk smack at all the Demo Teams. My opinion is that the Barbarians should not be allowed to trade techs amongst themselves but could interact with the Citystates.
I also think it would be neat to have a few of the Democracy members choose to be Historians. They would still be active members of the Citystate teams but would each have an exclusive thread where they would post their "History" as the game progressed in their own words. Sort of like Homer and Livy.
And of course the Barbarians can fight one another also. Perhaps the Forum could be available as a city improvement and buildable in all the Citystate cities.
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 16-07-2003 at 21:25
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HarryH
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Olympia, WA
Sep 2002
time: 21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb
That's kinda the point HarryH. The Democracy game is all about the Citystates, the barbarians are just human AI to provide a better opponent that the game AI would. |
I understand that, but if you strangle the human AI too much it will not provide a competitive opponent to make the citystates work for a victory.
Have you noticed what happens when you extract all the money from the AI? It severly reduces their trading ability. The civs that are in the tech lead will continue to trade with each other but the lagards will have nothing to trade with so they get further behind in tech. At several points in the ancient age there are a limited number of techs that can be researched. With the research advantage the citystates have from the start they will get into those techs first. Once they have all the first tier techs from the barbs the barbs will not have much to trade. The citystates will continue to advance in tech and leave the barbs behind. The citystates will be the leaders and trade with each other so they only have to do about a quarter of the techs. The barbs will get left behind and will need to research nearly every tech for themselves. Sounds like some games I have played where I use my cavalry to stomp on any tech leaders. Once that is done, by the time I get tanks the laggard AI civs are building musketmen for defense.
Will the citystates be able to combat each other too or will all the pressure be on the barbs?
It sounds like once the initial trading of starting techs and goody huts are gone, the most valuable assest the barbs will have is new cities. Cities the citystates deparately need. Although very valuable, losing too many cities via conquest or trading will negatively affect the barbs ability to compete.
You want the human AI to be a better opponent than the game AI but at least the game AI can trade techs with each other, and at higher difficulty levels the AI gets a research/production advantage that the barbs will not have. This may turn out to be a serious handicap for the barbs (or it may not turn out as I think it will). You might want to consider other things instead.
Ideas:
Remove the UU from the barbs and give them the regular unit instead. Why should a barb civ have a UU with extra abilities or have a golden age?
Give the citystate civs an extra trait, or remove traits from the barbs.
Give the citystate civs extra UUs (maybe one per age). The downside of this one is that it diminishes the UU differences between the citystates themselves (if there is much combat between the citystates).
Q: Will barbs be allowed to cooperate with each other (e.g., alliances, etc.) against the citystates? against each other?
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16-07-2003 20:33
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