19-07-2003 08:27									#1
	Poll: Do we take RP's new offer for Engineering Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

See Beta's post here for details. Basically, we already have agreed to take the GoW deal for not trading Engineering to RP. Do we also take the new RP deal of 40 gold + 3 gpt + 1 luxury and tell them it must be kept quiet as to where they got Engineering from. I felt this was an important enough decision to need a poll. The poll will be over when I play the next turn which I expect to be sometime on Saturday.

	19-07-2003 11:04									#2
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Geez I don't know. I know Beta recommends playing both sides, but loose playing like that appears to be causing quite a bit of controversy in the main PTWDG forum (one side says NAP, the other says it wasn't...etc.). When GoW sees that RP has engineering it won't be long for them to figure out that it was us who gave it away if they contact both GS and Lego (unless we get Lego to lie about it). And then what would our word be worth? Nothing.

I think we should just tell them that after the deal with them fell through we went another route. Not the best way with Beta already working out the deal. It's murky territory and either way we're bound to annoy one of the teams down the road.

Do what you think is best Harry. You've had more practice with MP and democracy games than I have. I don't envy you the decision.

	19-07-2003 11:35									#3
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Ergh! Okay so I just had another thought. Our original deal WAS with RP. But was that deal ever officially called off? It doesn't look like it from the RP FA thread. Just a momentary halt with potential to reopen the deal later...which Beta did. Sooooo...that also means that if we call off Beta's new deal then we are reneging on a deal we had made. We might have to deal with both RP and GoW and hope the fallout doesn't hit us.

This is a murky situation. Ouch!

	19-07-2003 14:34									#4
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As quoted from Beta in the other thread:

quote: "In my view - we have little or no indebtedness to any of the Bobian civs. So lets just try to make the most of this war - given our situation - and as I feel some of the Bobians did with us." - Beta

I have to concur. I say that we trade engineering to RP - Just make sure they keep quiet as to where they got it from. Besides, we did start the deal with them first.

	19-07-2003 15:55									#6
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Hmmm - I still say yes - but MZ's latest (see GoW thread) has me wondering.

(Glad I am going on vacation after I got us into this pickle. )

	19-07-2003 16:42									#7
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Yes, I see that GoW will pay us for our services over 4 turns instead of all at once...well, I still say trade engineering to RP - After all, we do want RP to put up some sort of prolonged fight - Just like the Bobonians (as a whole) did to us in our war with GS, giving us just enough support to continue the fight but not too much as to actually win the war. I say screw them all (GoW, RP, ND) and get as much as we can out of all three of the civs. They did the same thing to us so turnabout is fair play as far as I'm concerned.

	19-07-2003 20:03									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Beta Hmmm - I still say yes - but MZ's latest (see GoW thread) has me wondering. (Glad I am going on vacation after I got us into this pickle. )

Letting someone else deal with it for a change?

	19-07-2003 20:10									#9
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Rhoth, I have not had that much experience in MP or DG games. This is my first on both accounts and I did not start this game from the beginning either (I think it was going for about a month when I joined).

We had a long standing deal with RP for Engineering. They said they could not afford to pay us according to the original deal so they wanted to renegotiate. While that was happening GoW came in with a proposal, which we accepted, to not pay us not to trade Engineering to RP. Now the renegotiations with RP are done and this is their offer.

I can not say it is my standard practice to go against deals, but GoW played us in the war with GS so I figure turnabout is fair play. The worst that will happen is they decide to come after us (not likely if they are heavily involved in warring with RP), they don't deal with us in the future, or they renig on the money they owe us. Since it will take them a couple of turns to figure out that RP has Engineering I don't think we would lose much in the later.

	20-07-2003 00:34									#10
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Yeah I think I've kind of changed my mind from the first post (so take off the no vote and add it to yes). I wasn't around for GoW messing with us during the GS war, but the RP deal came first so let's stick with it. If the fallout happens then lets deal with it.

One thing though...what abou Lego's response if they find out we're double dealing?

	20-07-2003 14:47									#11
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Well, I guess this is all irrelevent now since RP has received Engineering from someone else for free.

	20-07-2003 20:16									#12
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Hmm, so I guess THEY have no compunctions about leaving deals behind when something better comes their way. That's something to remember for future dealings.

Well, at the very least we won't be lying if GoW asks us if we traded Engineering to RP.