20-07-2003 01:45									#1
	7 New civs? I'm confused. Put an end to popups!

C3C is looking great. I'm a little confused though as to how the new civs are being added in. Are they only going to be in the scenarios? Or will their be new civs to play on random maps, too?

And the number I'm hearing now is 7, before it was 8. 7 seems like an odd number - maybe they didn't have time for the eighth?

Which new civs are confirmed to be available on random maps?

	20-07-2003 01:47									#2
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And I would like to apologise if this has been asked before; I checked through the last couple of pages and didn't see anything.

	20-07-2003 01:51									#3
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the game has a hardcoded limit of 31 civs + barbarians

	20-07-2003 02:13									#4
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The new civs will be playable in the regular game on random maps.

	20-07-2003 02:25									#5
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In Gamespot review, they said that two of the civs in one of the scenarios are the Babylonians and the Phoenicians, and claimed that neither was in the regular game, which he know to be false, as Babylon has been included since the original game. Perhaps by Babylonians, they mean the Hittites? (The city of Babylon was ruled by the Hittites post-Hammurabi)

And have the 7 civs been confirmed?

So far I've gathered:

Hittites
Incans
Mayans
Phoenicians
Portugese



???

	20-07-2003 03:07									#6
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Dutch.

	20-07-2003 03:40									#7
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Dutch aren't confirmed. Nor, really, are Portugal, but there is reason to suspect that they are included.

	20-07-2003 19:33									#8
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hi ,

there are only 32 slots for civs , ...... one is taken by the barbs , .....

we had 16 with civ III , 8 more with ptw , the barbs are still there , so that leaves 7 , .....

have a nice day

	20-07-2003 19:41									#9
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , there are only 32 slots for civs , ...... one is taken by the barbs , ..... we had 16 with civ III , 8 more with ptw , the barbs are still there , so that leaves 7 , ..... have a nice day

that's exactly what i said in my post

	20-07-2003 19:44									#10
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Dutch aren't confirmed. Nor, really, are Portugal, but there is reason to suspect that they are included.

hi ,

we might see more civs true mods and scenarios in c3c , it could be there is a civ thats in a scen but you can play it outside the scenario , .....

have a nice day

	20-07-2003 20:01									#11
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So does that mean that there will no longer be expansions that include civs? Or (I'm not a programming person) that they can change the code to accomodate more civs?

Also, IIRC, the Dutch and Portuguese were confirmed, in part because of the new Seafaring civ attribute, but the Phoenicians were in a middle east conquest.

So that means:

Summerians
Incas
Mayans
Hittites
Portuguese
Dutch

Who else? Canada? Polynesia? Khmer? Nubians? Slavs? Navajo? Israelis? Aborigines? Australians? Ghanans? Austrians?

There's enough for another XP!

	20-07-2003 20:03									#12
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous So does that mean that there will no longer be expansions that include civs? Or (I'm not a programming person) that they can change the code to accomodate more civs? Also, IIRC, the Dutch and Portuguese were confirmed, in part because of the new Seafaring civ attribute, but the Phoenicians were in a middle east conquest. So that means: Summerians Incas Mayans Hittites Portuguese Dutch Who else? Canada? Polynesia? Khmer? Nubians? Slavs? Navajo? Israelis? Aborigines? Australians? Ghanans? Austrians? There's enough for another XP!

hi ,

sssssst , there is an other xp for next year x-mas , ......

the civs just changed when in a scenario or mod , ....

have a nice day

	20-07-2003 20:05									#13
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , sssssst , there is an other xp for next year x-mas , ...... the civs just changed when in a scenario or mod , .... have a nice day

Boo...that's no fun

there should be a way to play them in a regular game, with their own leaderheads etc

	20-07-2003 20:11									#14
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Boo...that's no fun there should be a way to play them in a regular game, with their own leaderheads etc

hi ,

there aint room for it , ..... yet , ....

we just have to wait and see , ......

Gramphos knows a great deal about how the game is build , ask him or ask someone at Firaxis , they might even anwser

have a nice day

	20-07-2003 20:58									#15
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect the game has a hardcoded limit of 31 civs + barbarians

I don't buy that. I'm sure the programmers can go in and edit another slot or three. They made the game after all.

	20-07-2003 23:42									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Danarchy I don't buy that. I'm sure the programmers can go in and edit another slot or three. They made the game after all.

hi ,

do you want to raise the min specs and do an install from 4 disks or so , .....

the base is still civ III

have a nice day

	21-07-2003 00:19									#17
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I would think it would be easy to add more civs to the game, while not increasing the number that can be used.
IOW the pool could have 48, but they could not be all used at any one time. That culd stay a 24 or 32 or what ever is best.
It would not impact the original civ any more than going to 24 did.

	21-07-2003 00:42									#18
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The problem is the 32 is a magic number for computer science, a power of 2. Probably there was a design decision made (likely for space or efficiency) that used exactly 5 bits in a data structure to hold the civ index.

The issue isn't "can they change it?". Of course they can. The real question is "can they change it without changing a lot of other things which would be expensive and likely to add new and unforeseen bugs?".

	21-07-2003 11:43									#19
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Dutch aren't confirmed. Nor, really, are Portugal, but there is reason to suspect that they are included.

I said "Dutch" based on this screeshot:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=30

It is an F4 screen from the the WWII scenario and one of the leaders is "Wilhelmina, Queen of Netherlands".
It is true that the leaderhead is not a new one, so I am a little confused. Maybe the leaderhead art is not ready yet, or they will appear only in the WWII scenario.

	21-07-2003 12:12									#20
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm "can they change it without changing a lot of other things which would be expensive and likely to add new and unforeseen bugs?".

And the answer to that question is no.

	21-07-2003 22:36									#21
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm The problem is the 32 is a magic number for computer science, a power of 2. Probably there was a design decision made (likely for space or efficiency) that used exactly 5 bits in a data structure to hold the civ index. The issue isn't "can they change it?". Of course they can. The real question is "can they change it without changing a lot of other things which would be expensive and likely to add new and unforeseen bugs?".

I doubt that the 2 to the 5th power is the issue. I say that as if you are use a relative addressing scheme the bit looks like this xx1xx xxxx. The one is 32 decimal represented in binary. So you have two higher order bits for the addressing.
It is probably some hard coded field that is 32 entries long. This is a bit weak as any one that was around application programming for awhile should have seen enough cases of fields being designed too small for future uses. Of course I have not done any application or sysyems programming in more than 15 years.

	21-07-2003 22:44									#22
	Re: 7 New civs? I'm confused. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Captain THC Which new civs are confirmed to be available on random maps?

As far as I know, the Amish(Agricultural, Religious) are the only ones confirmed. UU is 2 mules pulling a buggy and the driver has a pitchfork in his hand. They wont be allowed to research electricity, though. Or Consrciption. You'd have to go for an ancient era win with them, I think.

	21-07-2003 23:37									#23
	Re: Re: 7 New civs? I'm confused. Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Feephi As far as I know, the Amish(Agricultural, Religious) are the only ones confirmed. UU is 2 mules pulling a buggy and the driver has a pitchfork in his hand. They wont be allowed to research electricity, though. Or Consrciption. You'd have to go for an ancient era win with them, I think.

hi ,

and that is really funny , ......


bye

	22-07-2003 00:13									#24
	Re: Re: Re: 7 New civs? I'm confused. Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by panag hi , and that is really funny , ...... bye

No 'Have a Nice Day' for me?

What did you find offensive?

Do you even know what an Amish is? I live near them, do you?

	22-07-2003 00:42									#25
	Re: Re: Re: Re: 7 New civs? I'm confused. Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Feephi No 'Have a Nice Day' for me? What did you find offensive? Do you even know what an Amish is? I live near them, do you?

everyone who knows what amish is and are does not find your posts funny that you have been making , .........

especially not when you cut copy paste them in other threads , .......

you dont use those people to have fun with or to portay them in a rediculous fashion , .......

have some respect for those people , .....

	22-07-2003 01:01									#26
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 7 New civs? I'm confused. Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by panag everyone who knows what amish is and are does not find your posts funny that you have been making , ......... especially not when you cut copy paste them in other threads , ....... you dont use those people to have fun with or to portay them in a rediculous fashion , ....... have some respect for those people , .....

My dear Panag, take a walk and get a deep breath of fresh air...

Don't drink so much coffee... Relax...

You are alone with your humorless point of view...

Maybe you should replace your picture of Sharon with an Amish since you love them so much...

	22-07-2003 01:11									#27
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omg Feephi racist omgomgomg anti-zionist omg!!!!!!!!!!111

*rolls eyes*

	22-07-2003 01:12									#28
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In all seriousness though, I really think the Hebrews should be added in. How can you have the Arabs, but not the Jews?

	22-07-2003 04:08									#29
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quote: In all seriousness though, I really think the Hebrews should be added in. How can you have the Arabs, but not the Jews?

I feel the same way.

I didn't find the amish joke really funny but I hardly think it was offensive to anyone.

	22-07-2003 04:44									#30
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Maybe I am missing something, but it was like a Leno joke. Not hard hitting or nasty. Funny or not is up to the individual. I at least smiled.