 |
| |
|
|
EvilProphet
|
It is becoming painfully clear that the tribe system is ridiculously flawed. My last post on this was deleted, I'm sure it was just an accidental deleting. First of all the only way any game is worth it is if you play someone ahead of you or if you play a tribe at your own ranking and there's an empty spot ahead of you. So lets take the situation right now. Anyone at nation status can't play a game. Playing someone at your own ranking will not allow you to move up and the two tribes at Hegemon are supposedly playing. So we have to wait until those 2 tribes get done which is probably going to take months and months. So really once all the tribes fill up the rankings which is not far off, then it's going to become stagnant. Everyone will be waiting to play the guy ahead of them. And, the guy at the top can stall forever. It's got to be one of the stupidest ranking systems I've ever seen. It's about as bad as the formula used for the rankings on the ladder portion.
|
|
| |
|
xoratatzis
|
Athens , greece
Aug 2000
time: 05:13
|
|
Frank , i think that gameleague is very good for the standards of the game! but my opinion is that u r not supporting it very often! sorry for these greeknglish!once a player posts something to the supervisors he gets his answer or sees the action that he demands many days after...
|
|
| |
|
|
markusf
|
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
The fact of the matter is these people here have no interest in attempting to suggest improvements that I am capable of making.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
"Capable of making" i think that is a pretty good way of phrasing it. From the incredable length of time it took you to make tribes and the incredable amount of time it takes you to make ANY improvements i am convinced there is not much programming experience behind "gameleague"
|
|
| |
|
|
EvilProphet
|
Dangime you told me yourself you are not a programmer. You can't even remove people like Merlin from our tribe because once they've been deleted they're in permanently. Markus is listed twice in our tribe and I'm still listed in Divine. This is just simple HTML you're using to run the tribes, there is nothing special about it. You still do everything manually. And don't ever call me a hypocrit. I have done all I can to increase the amount of players who play gameleague. I have told you time and again why your popularity was slipping and what you could do to increase it. I spent hours trying to get players on the zone to join your league and get people who have permanent connections to take up rooms on the zone to advertise gameleague. I'm guessing at least half of the players you've gained in the past months are from that effort. If you fall, and you will, it is because of your own neglect. Gameleague has been on top too long and you've become overconfident in your site. The fact of the matter is that gameleague is inferior.
|
|
| |
|
|
SlowwHand
|
Jeez guys, kind of harsh aren't you?
If you challenge above you, which you should, the Tribe is pretty much required to accept SOME challenge.
Tuatha De Danann plays equal ranks of Tribes for the experience and love of the game only.
What's stopping the rest of you?
------------------
It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
|
|
| |
|
|
EvilProphet
|
The fact that for 2 months Europa and Divine have been trying to set up a game. How about that? It's only common sense to see how flawed this system is.
|
|
| |
|
|
SlowwHand
|
With all due respect to the 2 Tribes to which you refer, but isn't that struggle based on their problems, rather than Frank's?
------------------
It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
|
|
| |
|
Kuja
 |
in your mouth
Feb 2001
time: 05:13
|
|
I agree 100 percent. But it's not just the tribe system that is flawed, it's the entire league. Everywhere you look there are imperfections that could easily be resolved, yet the moderators do nothing about it. EvilProphet already brought the tribe situation to the front. I also must say that once you get to be #1 rank in league, it's almost impossible to gain more points. This is in part due to the formula used, and also due to the fact that most people on this ladder suck and don't have enough points to compete. Since I have 2400+ points, I can no longer play people with less than 1/2 of my points. If I do and win, I still lose points. This is stupid. I can't play league games because all of the top players are inactive, and all the bottom players suck too much to gain enough points. And as was mentioned earlier, the tribal situation right now blows. My tribe has been sitting and waiting for a month to play, yet with this format there is nobody to play and improve ourselves. If you ask many people around, this entire league is flawed and outdated, and needs to modernize quickly or else lose your glue that's holding this dying site together. GameLeague reminds me of the Ottoman Empire, "the sick man of Europe". It took hundreds of years of decline before it finally fell, but sure enough it did. Think about that administrators....
|
|
| |
|
UpInFlames
|
hmmmm.....
Aug 2000
time: 00:13
|
|
Most of the new players suck compared to me, and I'm not even that good....I think Civ 2 all togethor is going down, not just the site
|
|
| |
|
Frank Johnson
 |
Houston, TX
Jan 1970
time: 23:13
|
|
Cavebear, this is just Eyes way of softening up GameLeague in his PR campaign to launch some other system he is now alligned with since being denied any sort of power in GL from me. As you can see, the small pestering issues Eyes raised in his first post were easily answered in my first post, or don't seriously affect game play and ammount to nagging. His goal is clear if you just read the way he wrote. He's not asking for anything to change, he just comes out and starts slamming, then quits without stating any obvious purpose.
Eyes, go get Apolyton to give you your own forum if you want to do this, that is if they'll give someone of your reputation one, because this isn't the Apolyton Multiplayer forum, its the GameLeague forum, and I'll only accept constructive critism, not destructive propaganda in here.
|
|
| |
|
|
EvilProphet
|
"Cavebear, this is just Eyes way of softening up GameLeague in his PR campaign to launch some other system he is now alligned with since being denied any sort of power in GL from me."
lol What makes you think this is about "power"? I've spent the past year doing all I can to help gameleague without any "power". This is but a dismal attempt to refute the points I have presented. The usual "Oh this is eye's attempt to gain power." Or "This is just Eyes' usual ranting". It's not going to work because all of my arguments have grounds and evidence. You on the other hand are making a pathetic defense in response.
"As you can see, the small pestering issues Eyes raised in his first post were easily answered in my first post, or don't seriously affect game play and ammount to nagging."
Oh please. This is your excuse for neglecting the service you provide your members? I haven't even gotten started on the ladder portion.
"His goal is clear if you just read the way he wrote. He's not asking for anything to change, he just comes out and starts slamming, then quits without stating any obvious purpose."
First of all, there will be no quitting. And anyone can go back and dig up posts where I have suggested and tried to get you to change stuff. ALso I have plenty of ICQ discussions with Kwang that show the same thing. You're out gunned in this argument, give up.
"Eyes, go get Apolyton to give you your own forum if you want to do this, that is if they'll give someone of your reputation one, because this isn't the Apolyton Multiplayer forum, its the GameLeague forum, and I'll only accept constructive critism, not destructive propaganda in here."
I very rarely post on that forum. And you're not exactly an active moderator. I doubt you ever even read this forum unless someone points it out to you.
|
|
| |
|
Frank Johnson
|
Houston, TX
Jan 1970
time: 23:13
|
|
You start out with a personal attack on me as the administrator on these boards. Then you attack the system as it currently stands with no suggestion for change, calling it "stupid" etc. Then you attack the tribe system for its limited challenging opertunities, but tell me this, how many tribes want a limit on how long one of there games can be? You complain some tribes can't do anything right now, sorry would you like a new level, a time limit, or do you want it point based ladder you are so critical of? You don't say, you're just out to destroy, since you give no suggestions I don't have any reason to think otherwise? Break out those ICQ logs with me, you never gave me anything specific, you just always said you and others could do better. The question remains, how?
The Idea behind the system is like a heavy weight title fight. Its to have order and structure, and force key match ups against key tribes in order to claim the top spot. Only the best competition can challenge the champs, and if they arent the best competitors there will be enough opertunities for them to be challenged if that is the case.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Frank Johnson (edited April 06, 2001).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Frank Johnson (edited April 06, 2001).]</font>
|
|
| |
|
|
EvilProphet
|
First of all, I made a post on this long long ago and you DELETED it. Wonder why that is? Second, I'm not the one running the tribes. You've made it very clear that my opinion doesn't matter. So therefore I feel no need suggest anything to you since I feel like I'm talking to a wall. In fact I don't believe I'm the only one that feels this way.
"The Idea behind the system is like a heavy weight title fight. Its to have order and structure, and force key match ups against key tribes in order to claim the top spot. Only the best competition can challenge the champs, and if they arent the best competitors there will be enough opertunities for them to be challenged if that is the case."
Opportunities...yes, a very interesting choice of words. I think I already explained that opportunities is the main problem of your flawed system. The ranking system itself is fundamentally flawed just like your formula for your ladder. Trying to say that I've never made any suggestions and that I only "destroy" is not a very good way to try to brush off my attacks. I have suggested many many things about ways to change your scoring and everything else about gameleague. I've given up. What it really comes down to is neglect, plain and simple.
|
|
| |
|
Mindfields
|
Netherlands
May 2000
time: 05:13
|
|
1] For me it's very clear: Gameleague administrators don't give a f*** about about their members.
2] Although eyes sucks, he did a lot of PR work for gameleague. And if Frank doesn't see that, he doens't know what's going on in this civ community. A simple 'thank you eyes' would be in place here.
|
|
| |
|
|
SlowwHand
|
I don't know about clubs, but I know how schools and jobs are conducted.
You don't like it, you leave.
Either that or the school/job decides to get rid of the negatives.
Having a poor attitude,and not being happy in that environment, makes for a negative.
You're history. Gone. Go be happy somewhere else.
Are clubs like that? I would think so.
This is pretty much a club.
Deductive reasoning then would offer a suggestion.
Go be happy.
Anyway, that's one man's opinion.
------------------
It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowwHand (edited April 07, 2001).]</font>
|
|
| |
|
Mindfields
|
Netherlands
May 2000
time: 05:13
|
|
What i was trying to say was: Don't expect anything from gameleague administrators, because they don't care about anything.
Accept the gameleague website how it is now.
|
|
| |
|
Kwang
|
Austin, TX
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
|
|
My computer has been down for about 2 weeks now. I'd like to however make a few points.
1. I think Frank is very correct in saying that far too often players make contradictory demands. Not individual players, but players as a group. This is very normal. Just like how people want more welfare and less taxes. We, the admins, have to choose from the many options and can only implement one. Every action that we make pisses some people off. Once again, this is very normal. However, I do agree with Frank in that the solutions that we have implemented are definitely the best compromise of the options that were open to us.
2. I agree that there is a significant degree of neglect among the administrators, especially with me. It's the same usual excuse: too busy. I'd like to say that this will change in the future, but if it does, it definitely won't be a drastic improvement. It sucks. I know. What can be done about it? From the administrative end, we'll try to put more effort into the system. From the user end, the only thing that can really be done is for you to pick up a few programming books, put together some sort of programming portfolio, apply to be an admin and help us. Both options suck, yes. But until at least one of us can work fulltime on GameLeague, things will probably stay that way.
3. There is a distinct lack of an alternatives being proposed. Eyes, you make some good arguments about tribes, but what can we do about it? Is there an alternate system you have in mind? Criticism without a solution is completely unproductive.
|
|
| |
|
Mindfields
|
Netherlands
May 2000
time: 05:13
|
|
You can think up solutions yourself, can't you Kwang?? And if you can't, you already should have asked your members for a solution. If something is wrong with your website, it's your responsibility to solve the problem. So don't blame members for not giving you a solution. Ask them for a solution!!
Maybe it is not a bad idea to remove the entire tribe section. Or make it work......do something!!!!
|
|
| |
|
Species8472
|
re-read, re-write, redo, undo
Jan 2000
time: 05:13
|
|
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Mindfields on 04-08-2001 05:23 PM</font>
You can think up solutions yourself, can't you Kwang?? And if you can't, you already should have asked your members for a solution. If something is wrong with your website, it's your responsibility to solve the problem. So don't blame members for not giving you a solution.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
I disagree. If someone has a problem with something, they should at least offer a better alternative. Mostly inside the problem, there is already hidden an answer to the sollution. No one is waiting for a whiner. Don't complain, suggest. If you have no suggestion, shut up.
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Ask them for a solution!!
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
always, preferably to the one with the problem
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Maybe it is not a bad idea to remove the entire tribe section. Or make it work......do something!!!!
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
If civ fanatics would make a tribe system, we would not create a system, where it is not profitable to play and win against another tribe. Winning should always be profitable, so you can always play games while also improve your score or whatever it is you play for.
But i think the system of tribes is not the main source of the problem of gameleague i think. Its like Kwang said: Not enough time (or no devotion if you ask me). With a little efford, all the problems are resolved easier. Also, gameleague should improve their system, so changes can be made easier in the future, so you dont spend time fixing all the time. We in civ fanatics just did this, its needs serious considerations for Gameleague to do this also.
|
|
| |
|
|
EvilProphet
|
Well I'm sorry to hear that Kwang. I and many others aren't going to settle for that though.
|
|
| |
|
BlueWaldo
|
Missouri, USA
Jan 1970
time: 23:13
|
|
If you don't like the tribe system that is fine with me, how would you improve it, we are very open to sugestions.
And for the record tribes is not done with just plain html.
and say what you will about our porgramming ability, i still think the problem is a lack of time. I am involved in many other things.
but i really would like to hear any sugestion you have because i will probally be working on GL a lot more over the summer.
|
|
| |
|
|
EvilProphet
|
Over the summer....Just 4 more months everyone!! Did you hear that? He's going to be working on it!! WOOOHHOOOOO!! However in the meantime, play on markus's ladder.
|
|
| |
|
suas333
|
Brooklyn, NY, U.S
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
|
|
Enough complaining. The members are as much to blame as the administrors. I'm at fault when I can't find any time to get sessions in, the members of divine and europa are at fault for such a long delay. The system isn't THAT bad, and the administrators couldn't predict these problems any easier than we could.
|
|
| |
|
|
SlowwHand
|
Mindfield and whoever else who just like to whine around, can just haulass for all I care.
A relative newbie, and all I've read is complaints.
Tear it, or quityour*****ing and come up with some kind of improvement that will ease your troubled mind.
Kujo can just go, period, as he's still a dishonest little puke, who can do nothing else.
------------------
It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:13.
Apolyton Time is 00:13. |
top of page
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Amazon
UK
|
Amazon DE |
Amazon FR |
