23-07-2003 08:35									#91
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by GePap Wrong: I would complai just as much if the firng from the left had as much power in destroying the political culture of the US as the fring of the right. They don't have as much power to do it.

So you are really saying that there is no difference... both sides are equally pond scum, including your side.

Your whole point seem to be that since one is more effective, it makes it worse.



Let me clue you in one last time... anybody that does is scum, whether it's more effective or not... it's still wrong, and VERY BAD.

	23-07-2003 08:38									#92
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GePap I never hear old fashioned conservatives peak of building a grander future. I would say that in general, Conservatives have a dim view of the abilities of man,

Now your biases are really showing... OH PLEASE... I guess your group is the only one that can have a grander future as a goal... and I guess your group is the only one that doesn't have a dim view of the ablities of man... yeah, right...

Thanks for coming up and showing your biases so clearly for everybody to see.

	23-07-2003 08:39									#93
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by GePap I never hear old fashioned conservatives peak of building a grander future. I would say that in general, Conservatives have a dim view of the abilities of man, so that anyone who gets the view that they can "create" new institutions and fomrs out of thin air and make the world a better place thus will fail. Why perhaps they like the market so much: the market may lead to a better future, but by accident, by slow progress without direction, and hence, free of the corruption man may bring to the table with some grandiose project. nowm every so often you get people like neo-cons, who still have their early liberals dreams of change by policy of man (most neo-cons begin as liebrals) but change their view of what the aimsn should be.

Au Contrare (sp?)

Conservatives have little faith in the instituations and beuracracy of man and much faith in the individual.

The shared goals are to have a better tomorrow but the crux of the dispute is through what mechanism and what role and scope of power the governement should have.

	23-07-2003 08:41									#94
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: liberals are nowhere near as common to make the claim that being conservative equals being unpatriotic. I'd rather be called 'unpatriotic' rather than being called, as I am called, 'evil'.

Imran: I would never call you unpatriotic, or a baby killer, or any other such nonsense. In fact I try very hard not to bandy about such name calling. I also try very hard to think of how the other side sees things which is why I often come down in the middle of many issues.

When I started this thread I had a very proticular incident in my mind where a very unenlightened individual attacked me as being an unpatriotic America hater when he didn't know a damn thing about me. I pointed out that I was a vetrain and that someone who hated America probably wouldn't volunteer to defend the country, but, this idiot and his friends continued to flame me simply because I pointed out that all Democrats didn't hate America and, yes, some Democratic politicians actually made America a better place.

That's the type of neanderthal I can do with out no matter which party he supports.

	23-07-2003 08:42									#95
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ming both sides are equally pond scum, including your side.

Hey!!! I'm not a Cyanobacterium.

	23-07-2003 08:42									#96
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Gepap And we have right wingers here too? So?

What do you mean, "so"? I'm addressing the original point. What's the problem?

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin This uber-"I hate everyone else who's different" mentality seems to be well seated in the far right

quote: Originally posted by loinburger Poly has its fair share of left wingers who love to say that all Republicans are evil. (They use that very word: evil. Not "unpatriotic" or "booger-faced" or whatever, but "evil.")

Put in plain English, "You're wrong, Oerdin." Happy now?

	23-07-2003 08:45									#97
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Au Contrare (sp?) Conservatives have little faith in the instituations and beuracracy of man and much faith in the individual. The shared goals are to have a better tomorrow but the crux of the dispute is through what mechanism and what role and scope of power the governement should have.

What does faith in the individual mean? Do conservaitves have faith in The Glorious Leader who shall come and make the world better?

You say conservaitves have little faith in institutions? What about Church, Country, and Family? You don;t get more institutionalized than that.

An individual can only change the world through an instutition, and significant chnage can usually happen only thorught he creation of a NEW institution.

	23-07-2003 08:47									#98
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well Oerdin...

I will state it again in a different way...

All forums have jerks and morons that call people names and insult people. At the forum you are refering to, you were called unpatriotic because of your political views and for no other reason.

Here... conservatives are called evil and many other nasty things just because of their political views...

That' life...

So why make a thread abusing one whole group of people just because of the actions of a few. Your title is offensive to all republicans... so in a way, you are doing the exact same thing that seems to be pissing your off about the other site. You are judging a whole group of people solely on their policital affiliation...

Does that make my POV a little more clear for you.

	23-07-2003 08:48									#99
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by loinburger Put in plain English, "You're wrong, Oerdin." Happy now?

Actually:

Oerdin say (paraphrase): Hate is common in the far right.

Loin says (paraphrase): POly has many Left winger that hate.

How is what you said a negation of what he said? You never addressed the idea that hate is common in the far right, only said "ditto for the far left.

	23-07-2003 08:49									#100
	Remove this text

Come on GePap,

Too much baiting on this one.

Think opportunity and not entitlement.

Handup not handout.

Faith in oneself and not the government.

	23-07-2003 08:50									#101
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by loinburger Put in plain English, "You're wrong, Oerdin." Happy now?

Can you please tell me what I'm wrong about again? Seriously, I think we're talking about two different things.

	23-07-2003 08:55									#102
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Can you please tell me what I'm wrong about again?

While I can't answer for him... I will say you are wrong for doing the same thing here that you are accusing people of another forum doing to you.

Yes... YOU ARE WRONG to do so.

	23-07-2003 08:56									#103
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Oerdin: I read "well seated in the far right" to mean "most prevalent in the far right" or perhaps even "based almost exclusively in the far right." The fact that the thread singles out Republicans lends credence to this paraphrasing (though some have broadened their horizons to cover all conservatives in this spanktification).

	23-07-2003 09:00									#104
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Ming Well Oerdin... I will state it again in a different way... All forums have jerks and morons that call people names and insult people. At the forum you are refering to, you were called unpatriotic because of your political views and for no other reason. Here... conservatives are called evil and many other nasty things just because of their political views... That' life... So why make a thread abusing one whole group of people just because of the actions of a few. Your title is offensive to all republicans... so in a way, you are doing the exact same thing that seems to be pissing your off about the other site. You are judging a whole group of people solely on their policital affiliation... Does that make my POV a little more clear for you.

Ok, you are talking about the thread title. If you like you can change it by eliminating the word Republican and just make it "Pigheadedness". I did take special care to say that not all Republicans are like this and that pigheadedness comes in "all shapes and sizes" meaning from all parts of the spectrium. I guess I should have made this point even more clear and I shall try to do so in the future.

That said I admite that wrong is wrong no matter who does it or how much they do it, but, I would say the far right displays this proticular trait to a greater degree then the far left (as opposed to the moderate right or left or even the centrists) It is a matter of degrees of wrongness I guess which maybe splitting hairs but still...

	23-07-2003 09:04									#105
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Sign of the times.

In the 60's & 70's it was the left that was rabidly calling conservatives baby killers and evil for the involvement in Vietnam.

It will swing the other way sooner or later and then the fringe left will do their damage to the system.

	23-07-2003 09:05									#106
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by loinburger Oerdin: I read "well seated in the far right" to mean "most prevalent in the far right" or perhaps even "based almost exclusively in the far right." The fact that the thread singles out Republicans lends credence to this paraphrasing (though some have broadened their horizons to cover all conservatives in this spanktification).

Point taken. I was examining Republican extremists simply because that was my most recent personal experience. I didn't mean to suggest that meant no one else was an extremist or didn't commit similiar offenses but I hope you can see why I was fired up about this proticular flavor of extremism.

	23-07-2003 09:06									#107
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Ok, you are talking about the thread title. If you like you can change it by eliminating the word Republican and just make it "Pigheadedness".

Yeah... I was talking about the very VISIBLE thread title... Just because now you don't mind if it's changed, I will state that you have done the exact same thing you have been whining about in the thread. Which makes you as bad as the people you are trying to trash here.

quote: That said I admite that wrong is wrong no matter who does it or how much they do it, but, I would say the far right displays this proticular trait to a greater degree then the far left (as opposed to the moderate right or left or even the centrists) It is a matter of degrees of wrongness I guess which maybe splitting hairs but still...

Now your biases are showing... here you are claimiing that "other" people do it more... yet here you are doing the exact same thing.

There is no "matter of degrees" here. ANYBODY that does it is EQUALLY Wrong... and guess what, you are as wrong for doing it here as the people at the other site were doing it to you.

No splitting hairs at all... just the simple facts.

	23-07-2003 09:07									#108
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Point taken. I was examining Republican extremists simply because that was my most recent personal experience. I didn't mean to suggest that meant no one else was an extremist or didn't commit similiar offenses but I hope you can see why I was fired up about this proticular flavor of extremism.

Could you be any wishy-washier?

Stick to your guns...

	23-07-2003 09:08									#109
	Tired of ads?

IT doesn't matter if you're right; it just matters that you have endurance...

	23-07-2003 09:09									#110
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I hope you can see why I was fired up about this proticular flavor of extremism.

Oh sure, I know where you're coming from about there. It's not worth worrying about, though.

	23-07-2003 09:10									#111
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'll even admite to a degree of hypocracy but can you honestly say there is no such thing as degrees? Clearly the man who kills ten people is worse then the man who kills one person. They are both murderers but one is a worse murder; a mass murder or serial killer if you will.

	23-07-2003 09:10									#112
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Ming There is no "matter of degrees" here. ANYBODY that does it is EQUALLY Wrong... and guess what, you are as wrong for doing it here as the people at the other site were doing it to you. No splitting hairs at all... just the simple facts.

Were they now? I don't like to get involved in the affairs of the other "other site", but calling somebody disloyal to his country because he's of the other major political party and complaining that members of the other political party tend to be pigheaded seem to be on different scales to me...

	23-07-2003 09:14									#113
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I'll even admite to a degree of hypocracy but can you honestly say there is no such thing as degrees? Clearly the man who kills ten people is worse then the man who kills one person. They are both murderers but one is a worse murder; a mass murder or serial killer if you will.

But we aren't talking murder here... we are talking about somebody who insults another whole group solely based on their political affiliation.

It was done to you there... and you have done the same here. You are as bad as the people you are trying to abuse. There is NO difference in your actions from theirs.

	23-07-2003 09:18									#114
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ming: If one takes the time to read beyond the thread title and actually read the content of my posts then they will see that I have taken a certain amount of effort to say that not all Republicans are like this and that other groups do it as well. Did the people on that other site do this? No, they did not so how can our transgretions be equally as bad?

	23-07-2003 09:24									#115
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Were they now? I don't like to get involved in the affairs of the other "other site", but calling somebody disloyal to his country because he's of the other major political party and complaining that members of the other political party tend to be pigheaded seem to be on different scales to me...

Nope both are smear tactics aimed at discrediting the opposition. Shame of it is the game of discrediting the other side has become more important than the real jobs they are accountable for.

Libs - Smear cons via tactics revolving around lack of IQ or lack of compassion and hence evilness.

Cons - Smear libs via tactics revolving around lack of practical world experience or lack of will and hence disloyal.

	23-07-2003 09:25									#116
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin No, they did not so how can our transgretions be equally as bad?

First... I read through every word you have posted... and totally understand the situation. But, I will nail your ass on the thread title. All your fine words are true, but you went out of your way to attack all Republicans when you made that title.

And I still stand on my pov that both transgretions are equally as bad... Like them, you are abusing a group of people based on their political affiliation and not on anything else.

You may claim the "level of insults" was different, but that doesn't really matter to me. It was the act itself.
You did the exact same thing you are accusing them of.

You may think you are on higher ground because your insult wasn't as bad... but in my mind, your high ground is only about an inch higher in the mud than their high ground, and you all playing in the same mud.

	23-07-2003 09:27									#117
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Nope both are smear tactics aimed at discrediting the opposition. Shame of it is the game of discrediting the other side has become more important than the real jobs they are accountable for. Libs - Smear cons via tactics revolving around lack of IQ or lack of compassion and hence evilness. Cons - Smear libs via tactics revolving around lack of practical world experience or lack of will and hence disloyal.

Really now. So calling somebody inflexible and calling them a traitor are equal?

Nice try.

	23-07-2003 09:30									#118
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Now if he'd said that Republicans are soulless monsters who crave the flesh of newborns, then I could see your point, but until then it's not a valid comparison...

	23-07-2003 09:34									#119
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Now if he'd said that Republicans are soulless monsters who crave the flesh of newborns, then I could see your point, but until then it's not a valid comparison...

Hmmm... unpatriotic vs soulless monsters who crave the flesh of newborns... you are right, it isn't a valid comparison... the second is far worse than being called unpatriotic

	23-07-2003 09:39									#120
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nope,

The insults thrown out in your above example are extreme for the cons and mild for the libs. Yet as is so often pointed out in this and other threads the name calling that gets bandied around on both sides is roughly equivalent and more importantly it is a set of stereotypes that does injustice to a whole category of people.

Bush is an idiot. Bush is a criminal. Trent Lott is a racist etc. etc. etc. from the left. (Feel free to substitute the word Republican in place of any above named leader)

Hillary is a traitor. Daschle doesn't have a backbone. etc. etc. etc. (Feel free to subtitute the word Democrat in place of any above named leader).

Its all a game about who can more effectively discredit the other and it is becoming more about the game and less about governing every day. Partisnaship needs to go. We need an effective 3rd party that more effectively represents the lukewarm centrists.