24-07-2003 23:55									#1
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In an astoundingly stupid move the UN has announced they will suspend and censor the organization “Reporters without Borders” (RwB) for daring to pass out a leaflet pointing out that Libya wasn’t a very good choice to head the UN’s Commission on Human Rights. Libya was elected, over the US and Costa Rica who were also candidates, by Arab and European members of the UN during the run up to the Iraq war as a way to piss off the Americans. The current Libyan dictator is one of the most brutal and repressive regimes in the world plus he has a history of executing political rivals as well as financing terrorist attacks upon civilian airliners.

The decision means RwB will not be able to present evidence of violations of press freedoms during UN meetings, including next year's annual session.

The group's press credentials are being revoked as the result of a vote by the UN's Economic and Social Council (Ecosoc), which is in charge of accreditation. Over the last decade the UN’s Ecosoc has been packed with many of the world’s most brutal and repressive regimes as a way to head off UN inspections into their horrendous Human Rights practices. Ranking member’s on the commission include China, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Belarus.

RwB condemned the suspension, calling it a "farce of the kind that increasingly characterizes the commission on human rights".

Here’s a link to the BBC report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3093137.stm

So know we have dictators using the UN to officially censor news groups which point out repressive human rights violations around the world. Isn’t the UN just a wonderful organization?

	24-07-2003 23:59									#3
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quote: Ranking member’s on the commission include China, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Belarus.

Well, looking at this line-up it is no wonder.

The UN ain't worth dung, I wish the US would pull out of it and tell them to take their sheity buildings with them.

	24-07-2003 23:59									#4
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Anything that irritates the US administration is a good thing, even if they are evil dictators.

	25-07-2003 00:21									#5
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If the UN wants to be seen as a legitimate entity that stands for peace, freedom, and diplomacy; it needs to stop playing political games. And the first order of business is getting all of those countries listed off of the UN Humans Rights' commission.

What the US did in Iraq was wrong... but this crap is just as bad.

	25-07-2003 00:24									#6
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quote: The current Libyan dictator is one of the most brutal and repressive regimes in the world

Where do you base this opinion?

quote: plus he has a history of executing political rivals as well as financing terrorist attacks upon civilian airliners.

In my eyes, he seems to have finally "grown up" and stopped it. Am I wrong?

This doesn't change the fact that the decision wasn't serving it's original purpose. US is making UN pretty obsolote so they try to annoy them as much as they can before they're finally forgotten.

	25-07-2003 00:25									#7
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Got to love the UN.

	25-07-2003 00:28									#8
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quote: Got to love the UN.

You do realise that the state in which United Nations is now is largely the fault of US politics in 80's, 90's and 21st century, right?

	25-07-2003 00:31									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu You do realise that the state in which United Nations is now is largely the fault of US politics in 80's, 90's and 21st century, right?

Libya heading the UN Commision on Human Rights and then revoked the credintials of an organization critical of that decision is the fault of the US in what way?

	25-07-2003 00:36									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu You do realise that the state in which United Nations is now is largely the fault of US politics in 80's, 90's and 21st century, right?

No, the current state of the UN has to do with it's birth coinsiding with the start of the cold war and it's institutions being set up intentionally to be nonfunctional so that neither side could use the UN to further it's cold war agenda.

	25-07-2003 00:38									#11
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quote: You do realise that the state in which United Nations is now is largely the fault of US politics in 80's, 90's and 21st century, right?

. The United Nations, as a world forum for international decision makers, and solver of disputes between country, rarely acted upon this function of theirs.
When the judges are themselves nations with interests, what sort of justice do you expect?

	25-07-2003 00:39									#12
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The UN is a wasteful, bureaucratic, anti-semitic, corrupt, undemocratic, unaccountable, debating society.

	25-07-2003 00:49									#13
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The diplomat--if it weren't for *****es who voted for LIBYA (or whatever) then the UN would be great...unfortunately, some people will politicize any small ****.

	25-07-2003 00:50									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu Where do you base this opinion?

I base it upon this: "plus he has a history of executing political rivals as well as financing terrorist attacks upon civilian airliners." Not to meantion the fact he locks up everyone who critisizes his tin pot dictatorship.

quote: In my eyes, he seems to have finally "grown up" and stopped it. Am I wrong?

I'd say so. There is no statute of limitations upon murder of which Ghadafi has done on a fairly large scale. Sure he's not a blood thursty cannibal like Idi Amin but he's still a pretty rotten bastard with no redeming qualities.

To say someone has "grown up" and has cut back on his murdering and terrorism sponsoring doesn't pardon his previous actions and he should be brought to task about that. In my mind this is like letting Hitler being appointed the chair of the Jewish protection commission or something.

	25-07-2003 01:01									#15
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wow I did not expect the UN's gross incompetence to be blamed on the US. course that conception was probably naive.

	25-07-2003 01:08									#16
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Some people live to blame the US for everything they don't like and neither evidience nor the truth matter to them.

Last edited by Oerdin on 25-07-2003 at 01:15

	25-07-2003 01:10									#17
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Great conclusions, guys.

	25-07-2003 01:14									#18
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The UN is a wasteful, bureaucratic, anti-semitic, corrupt, undemocratic, unaccountable, debating society.

Anti-semetic? Huh? How so?

	25-07-2003 01:15									#19
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i really don't understand how the 'if they're against america they're good' mentality which the UN shows with this kind of thing benefits anyone...

	25-07-2003 01:18									#20
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Anti-semetic? Huh? How so?

I wouldn't say the UN is inherently anti-semetic, but, it is certainly full of a bunch of muslim states which consistently attack Isreal for even the most minor cases while totally ignore far, far more grevious cases in muslim countries.

It's a clear double standard but as long as there's around 45 muslim countries attacking one country and working as a block to prevent examination of their own short falls then I don't see how the UN can be fair and balanced in this matter.

	25-07-2003 01:22									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu Great conclusions, guys.

I'd really like an answer to my question, Tuom.

	25-07-2003 01:22									#22
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quote: In an astoundingly stupid move the UN has announced they will suspend and censor the organization “Reporters without Borders” (RwB) for daring to pass out a leaflet pointing out that Libya wasn’t a very good choice to head the UN’s Commission on Human Rights. Libya was elected, over the US and Costa Rica who were also candidates, by Arab and European members of the UN during the run up to the Iraq war as a way to piss off the Americans. The current Libyan dictator is one of the most brutal and repressive regimes in the world plus he has a history of executing political rivals as well as financing terrorist attacks upon civilian airliners.

The suspension is for one year, not permanent, as you imply. There's no mention of the censorship, either.

The article clearly states that the RSF was singled out because they took their protest directly into the debating chamber. Now, I think that they should simply have been removed and given some small punishment, a month's suspension or something. You were complaining a lot about disruptive anti-war protestors, why the sudden change of heart?

Libya is not a good choice to head the commission on human rights, but it is not 'one of the most brutal repressive regimes in the world'. It's an average tinpot dictatorship, like any other. The conviction of the Libyans for the Lockerbie bombing was based on the testimony of a Maltese tailor, some years after the event. I think it was the Iranians, myself.

Every mistake the UN makes is used as a justification to withdraw from/abolish it. Usually by Americans who probably mutter 'screw the UN' in their sleep. Every success is ignored.

The UN is vital to global security and development. We should reform and strengthen it, not seek to undermine it at every opportunity.

	25-07-2003 01:23									#23
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney i really don't understand how the 'if they're against america they're good' mentality which the UN shows with this kind of thing benefits anyone...

It's not "the UN", it's all those countries that we pissed off voting against us. And given our record on human rights (the Native Americans, among the last 3 countries to end slavery, Jim Crow, the death penalty, and so on) I can see why other countries might be just a little suspicious of us.

And now with Bush cooperating with every little tinhorn dictator in all these little ****youastans and pushing Christian fanatic reproductive mores on NGOs, why the hell should they listen to us when we pay lip service to human rights?

Still, they could have filled the commission with nations that actually do care about human rights.

	25-07-2003 01:25									#24
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Anti-semetic? Huh? How so?

I just mean that the UN resolutions that are passed are often grossly unfair and anti-Israel.

	25-07-2003 01:26									#25
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I am sure the arab countries have esp. great reasons to be suspicious about the US' human rights, esp. considering the fact that they are great bastions of human rights themselves.

	25-07-2003 01:27									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman The suspension is for one year, not permanent, as you imply. There's no mention of the censorship, either. The article clearly states that the RSF was singled out because they took their protest directly into the debating chamber. Now, I think that they should simply have been removed and given some small punishment, a month's suspension or something. You were complaining a lot about disruptive anti-war protestors, why the sudden change of heart? Libya is not a good choice to head the commission on human rights, but it is not 'one of the most brutal repressive regimes in the world'. It's an average tinpot dictatorship, like any other. The conviction of the Libyans for the Lockerbie bombing was based on the testimony of a Maltese tailor, some years after the event. I think it was the Iranians, myself. Every mistake the UN makes is used as a justification to withdraw from/abolish it. Usually by Americans who probably mutter 'screw the UN' in their sleep. Every success is ignored. The UN is vital to global security and development. We should reform and strengthen it, not seek to undermine it at every opportunity.

the US is vital to global security. the UN couldn't secure a honda civic in a parking lot at 2 am.

	25-07-2003 01:29									#27
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell The diplomat--if it weren't for *****es who voted for LIBYA (or whatever) then the UN would be great...unfortunately, some people will politicize any small ****.

Well, I doubt that the US voted for Libya to be on the Human Rights committee.

And who is politicizing it? When I say that the UN is a bureaucratic, wasteful mess, I am simply stating fact. SG Kofi Annan has himself admitted to the UN's ineficient and wasteful bureaucracy.

Do you think it makes sense for a country like Libya, with its utter contempt for human rights to be sitting on a committee on human rights? Does that make sense to you?

	25-07-2003 01:32									#28
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat I just mean that the UN resolutions that are passed are often grossly unfair and anti-Israel.

Not all Israelis are Jews, and not all Jews are Israelis.

Of course, every nation in that region needs to be spanked. I'd almost say the middle east needs a return to British colonial rule given that no regime over there seems capable of acting in anything resembling a civilized manner.

	25-07-2003 01:34									#29
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Truly sparkling counter-argument there, Yavoon.

	25-07-2003 01:35									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman The suspension is for one year, not permanent, as you imply. There's no mention of the censorship, either.

So you don't consider not being able to testify or give evidience nor to submite papers for consideration to ba a form of censorship? It's a blanket gag order and that's censorship if I ever saw it.

quote: The article clearly states that the RSF was singled out because they took their protest directly into the debating chamber. Now, I think that they should simply have been removed and given some small punishment, a month's suspension or something. You were complaining a lot about disruptive anti-war protestors, why the sudden change of heart?

A few members did this and the organization punished those members according to an LA Times article I read today. The guilty we punished and the dictators used this as an excuse to eliminate a watch dog organization. As for changes of heart; I have hand none. It is one thing for an organization which has been invaited to give testimony to be censored for that testimony and a TOTALLY different one for protesters to block public streets and prevent emergency vehicles from reaching their destinations. One of these actions puts the public in danger while the other does not thus one is allowable while the other is not.

quote: Libya is not a good choice to head the commission on human rights, but it is not 'one of the most brutal repressive regimes in the world'. It's an average tinpot dictatorship, like any other. The conviction of the Libyans for the Lockerbie bombing was based on the testimony of a Maltese tailor, some years after the event. I think it was the Iranians, myself.

I trust the trail and the information which the judge didn't allow to be admited based up the, extraordinarially favorable, extradition treaty the Libyans negotiated.

quote: Every mistake the UN makes is used as a justification to withdraw from/abolish it. Usually by Americans who probably mutter 'screw the UN' in their sleep. Every success is ignored.

I have never advicated leaving the UN nor would I. I have repeatedly pointed out that the current struction of the UN is completely nonfunction and should be massively over hauled. Until that over haul is completed the UN should only be window dressing with no real power or else it will be hijacked by worthless P.O.S. countries as the Human Rights Commission has been.