25-07-2003 01:39									#31
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Sandman Truly sparkling counter-argument there, Yavoon.

which part of it wasn't true? its pretty obvious if u ask me. who guards taiwan? who arms israel? who tries to twist north koreas arm? the list gets pretty lengthy.

how many carriers does the UN have? how many forward deployed troops? how often have they responded quickly in force?

the UN doesn't have the capability, the will or the history to be vital to the security of the globe. so its not hard to call u out when u say silly **** like that.

	25-07-2003 01:39									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by The Templar It's not "the UN", it's all those countries that we pissed off voting against us. And given our record on human rights (the Native Americans, among the last 3 countries to end slavery, Jim Crow, the death penalty, and so on) I can see why other countries might be just a little suspicious of us. And now with Bush cooperating with every little tinhorn dictator in all these little ****youastans and pushing Christian fanatic reproductive mores on NGOs, why the hell should they listen to us when we pay lip service to human rights? Still, they could have filled the commission with nations that actually do care about human rights.

comparing modern day america's human rights record with that of countries like china, zimbabwe and libya is just stupid (that slavery thing is also wrong btw).

yes it certainly would be nice if the commission had nations which actually repected human rights on it, but because of the attitude which many of the of the nations who make these kind of idiotic decisions, that will never happen. because to them, having an anti-american country is more important than a having one that respects human rights.

	25-07-2003 01:41									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by yavoon who arms israel?

The French!

	25-07-2003 01:47									#34
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by C0ckney comparing modern day america's human rights record with that of countries like china, zimbabwe and libya is just stupid (that slavery thing is also wrong btw).

Ask a Native American (if you can find one) about that. Ask someone in the South Bronx (pardon me Downtown Bronx) about the friendly policepeople down there. But sure, the US is better than the worst HR offenders (kind of a left-handed compliment if you ask me).

BTW Cuba and Brazil were the only two countries that still had slavery at the time (1863 CE) that we abolished it.

quote: yes it certainly would be nice if the commission had nations which actually repected human rights on it, but because of the attitude which many of the of the nations who make these kind of idiotic decisions, that will never happen. because to them, having an anti-american country is more important than a having one that respects human rights.

If that's the case, then it is incumbent on us not to piss off these other countries so that actual HR work can be done..

	25-07-2003 01:53									#35
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by yavoon which part of it wasn't true? its pretty obvious if u ask me. who guards taiwan? who arms israel? who tries to twist north koreas arm? the list gets pretty lengthy.

Of course, Taiwan got kicked out of the UN in part because we withdrew recognition. Great, we give Israel F-16s with which to bomb apartment buildings. And we've done a bang up job with the N. Koreans.

Were you trying to make a point in favor of the US?

quote: how many carriers does the UN have? how many forward deployed troops? how often have they responded quickly in force? the UN doesn't have the capability, the will or the history to be vital to the security of the globe. so its not hard to call u out when u say silly **** like that.

My, we are being a bit disingenous here aren't we? Are you saying the UN should have a giant independent military with all the latest and best technology? And if you don't think they should, then why are you faulting them for not having their own army.

	25-07-2003 01:55									#36
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

well of course, no country is perfect, but america has a far better human rights record than most other countries in the world.

cuba and brasil had slavery in 1863 (as you said), as did turkey, and christ knows how many minor arab states in both arabia and east africa, despite our best efforts to stop that trade. sudan still has salvery to this day

i don't agree that it should be up to america, the commission is about human rights, it should be left to deal with that issue, rather than be used for pointless political games.

	25-07-2003 02:03									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Ask a Native American (if you can find one) about that.

My wife is part Native American and has no earthly clue what your grousing about. There were myriads of abuses in the 19th century but it is hardly fair to claim that they are somehow indicative of human rights in the US today.

quote: But sure, the US is better than the worst HR offenders (kind of a left-handed compliment if you ask me).

Are you some sort of purist of something? What country hasn't committed HR abuses at some point in its history?

quote: BTW Cuba and Brazil were the only two countries that still had slavery at the time (1863 CE) that we abolished it.

140 years ago dude. Get over it, already.

	25-07-2003 02:08									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Of course, Taiwan got kicked out of the UN in part because we withdrew recognition. Great, we give Israel F-16s with which to bomb apartment buildings. And we've done a bang up job with the N. Koreans. Were you trying to make a point in favor of the US? My, we are being a bit disingenous here aren't we? Are you saying the UN should have a giant independent military with all the latest and best technology? And if you don't think they should, then why are you faulting them for not having their own army.

what an inane argument. disagreeing with US policies doesn't diminish its role in global security.

my point is that someone said the UN was vital to global security and they just aren't. its that damn simple. the US is vital to global security.

	25-07-2003 02:27									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Libya is certainly a gross violator of human rights, it is Jamahariyah(hard line Islamic fundamentalist)

	25-07-2003 02:34									#40
	Re: The UN is becoming more stupid by the day. Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin So know we have dictators using the UN to officially censor news groups which point out repressive human rights violations around the world. Isn’t the UN just a wonderful organization?

I think the UN is a very useful organization. You can always use it as a sample of how NOT to do things

	25-07-2003 02:40									#41
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Anti-semetic? Huh? How so?

From http://www.unisevil.com

quote: The United Nation's War Against Israel In the United Nation's General Assembly, 429 anti-Israel resolutions were passed from 1967 to 1988. Israel was "condemned" 321 times.[...]

	25-07-2003 02:47									#42
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Can't see why peope are so upset about this.

If you don't like a democratic decision - bugger off to North Korea and leave us in peace.

Gaddaffi's gone to great lengths to distance himself from his position in the 80s... I don't see a little recognition of that fact hurting anyone.

Mind you, with that individual, he's never the same within a 5 minute space of time... but just keep an eye on him rather than ignoring a few facts, eh?

	25-07-2003 02:52									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It is encouraging misinformed democractic decisions... at least that what happens when you aren't aloud to look for the truth...IIRC

	25-07-2003 02:55									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu Where do you base this opinion? In my eyes, he seems to have finally "grown up" and stopped it. Am I wrong? This doesn't change the fact that the decision wasn't serving it's original purpose. US is making UN pretty obsolote so they try to annoy them as much as they can before they're finally forgotten.

THe US bombing raid helped him grow up. Not some nice handholding from Old Europe.

	25-07-2003 02:57									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu You do realise that the state in which United Nations is now is largely the fault of US politics in 80's, 90's and 21st century, right?

Yes...everything is the US's fault. Too bad we won WW2 and the Cold War. Not much help from accomodationalist Finland.

	25-07-2003 02:58									#46
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

As a member of the US I don't mind taking the blame, I would just like to be able take the praise as well... FRANCE!

	25-07-2003 02:59									#47
	Support Apolyton

Why not disband the UN and replace it with a gobal version of NATO, a mutual defense alliance of nations committed to world peace?

	25-07-2003 03:03									#48
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by TCO THe US bombing raid helped him grow up. Not some nice handholding from Old Europe.

So, by that logic;-

1) 9/11 was a great day for the maturation of the US.

2) The IRA did a sterling job educating the British govt and it's people.

3) Ditto Chechen seperatists to the Russian govt and people.

4) Ditto Palestinian extremists to the Israeli govt and people.

I think your logic is a bit off here.

	25-07-2003 03:04									#49
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Ask a Native American (if you can find one) about that. Ask someone in the South Bronx (pardon me Downtown Bronx) about the friendly policepeople down there. But sure, the US is better than the worst HR offenders (kind of a left-handed compliment if you ask me). BTW Cuba and Brazil were the only two countries that still had slavery at the time (1863 CE) that we abolished it.

If the best thing you can come up with happened a century and a half ago then I feel I win this debate by default.

There is no comparision to the US's human rights record to China's or Libya's or Zimbabwe's.

	25-07-2003 03:09									#50
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Cruddy So, by that logic;- 1) 9/11 was a great day for the maturation of the US. 2) The IRA did a sterling job educating the British govt and it's people. 3) Ditto Chechen seperatists to the Russian govt and people. 4) Ditto Palestinian extremists to the Israeli govt and people. I think your logic is a bit off here.

Your logic is off. People like you got us into WW2 with appeasement. Cowards and idiots.

	25-07-2003 03:10									#51
	Re: Re: The UN is becoming more stupid by the day. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by OliverFA I think the UN is a very useful organization. You can always use it as a sample of how NOT to do things

You got me there Oliver.

	25-07-2003 03:12									#52
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by TCO Your logic is off. People like you got us into WW2 with appeasement. Cowards and idiots.

Please explain how my logic is off... before coming up with baseless accusations that bear no resemblance to reality.

In other words - I stand up to bullies and would greatly enjoy kicking your arse.

	25-07-2003 03:13									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

**** UN, **** Libya and **** all who voted for them. Let's just arm ourselves, look out for each other on the same side and give hell to everyone trying to interrupt our peace and well being. THat's right!
I reckon someone needs to buy few Susie Qs to make sure we're going to be ok.

	25-07-2003 03:14									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Cruddy So, by that logic;- 1) 9/11 was a great day for the maturation of the US. 2) The IRA did a sterling job educating the British govt and it's people. 3) Ditto Chechen seperatists to the Russian govt and people. 4) Ditto Palestinian extremists to the Israeli govt and people. I think your logic is a bit off here.

Let me explain it for you, dummie. Threats of force work well against brutal people. Or do you really think that Qaddafi "matured"? If they don't change the behavior, they will at least kill the brutal people when followed to extension.

	25-07-2003 03:17									#55
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Please explain how my logic is off... before coming up with baseless accusations that bear no resemblance to reality. In other words - I stand up to bullies and would greatly enjoy kicking your arse.

That's nice. You're still a moron. I spelled it out for you.

	25-07-2003 03:17									#56
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by TCO Let me explain it for you, dummie. Threats of force work well against brutal people. Or do you really think that Qaddafi "matured"? If they don't change the behavior, they will at least kill the brutal people when followed to extension.

But there was no threat involved. You bombed him, going beyond the threatening stage.

Nevermind, you've given me an idea for a new thread. Thanks.

	25-07-2003 03:21									#57
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Cruddy But there was no threat involved. You bombed him, going beyond the threatening stage. Nevermind, you've given me an idea for a new thread. Thanks.

Try to think. We hit him once. Doesn't that make a very credible threat that we will hit him again? Or do you need an engraved card to deliver that message?

	25-07-2003 03:24									#58
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by TCO Threats of force work well against brutal people.

My thoughts exactly. Time to take off the gloves in dealing with the dear leader George II.

	25-07-2003 03:27									#59
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by TCO Try to think. We hit him once. Doesn't that make a very credible threat that we will hit him again? Or do you need an engraved card to deliver that message?

Is the fact that you him once what makes you so suspicious? How could he ever forgive you?

Read back over these posts and see for yourself who has made the bigger fool of himself.

Also look up "Chad" on a search engine to discover a little more about why he chucked the towel in.

	25-07-2003 03:29									#60
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler My thoughts exactly. Time to take off the gloves in dealing with the dear leader George II.

You tried that in WW1 and 2 and we cleaned your clocks.