26-07-2003 01:50									#1
	Colonizing the deep sea? Enter the AD-FREE zone

I bought Call to Power II a few days ago and one thing that i thought was strange was how instead of outer space being the future of human expansion, in CtP, you're supposed to colonize the ocean...

now would that ever be real practical? are there enough resources down there to off-set the huge costs of underwater construction of tunnels and all that?

	26-07-2003 02:03									#2
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Screw the real costs, I'm just thinking about the psychological ones - not for me, thanks!

	26-07-2003 02:06									#3
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Not a chance, unless we go in for heavy genetic modification.

	26-07-2003 02:08									#4
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Floating "cities" are feasible.

	26-07-2003 02:14									#5
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It's certainly no more of a pipedream than colonizing space.

	26-07-2003 02:14									#6
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I really love CTP2 Multiplayer. It was way ahead of its time and I spent ALOT of time playing it.

	26-07-2003 02:17									#7
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Remember, the cost of new technology is always outrageous.

(If we can avoid ecological issues, sea colonisation will happen sometime...probably the same time or a little after space.)

	26-07-2003 02:30									#8
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ever watched that older show, SeaQuest?

	26-07-2003 02:32									#9
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Sea Quest was made by the same people who did Johnny Quest wasn't it? I believe Hanabarbara did the cartoon.

	26-07-2003 02:34									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Sea Quest was made by the same people who did Johnny Quest wasn't it? I believe Hanabarbara did the cartoon.

cartoon?

	26-07-2003 02:50									#11
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun cartoon?

Are you talking about the 1970's tv show about the man with webbed hands and feet? I thought that was aqua-man or something.

	26-07-2003 02:56									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Are you talking about the 1970's tv show about the man with webbed hands and feet? I thought that was aqua-man or something.

um, no

	26-07-2003 03:53									#13
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It could begin on a small scale,
small habitates where worker live which mine ressources from the Bottom of the Ocean.

But if there will be ever Cities on a large Scale?

Maybe more in form of those floating Cities already mentioned.

	26-07-2003 03:55									#14
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you mean "Sealab 2020"?

redone as "Sealab 2021" for Adult Swim.

	26-07-2003 03:57									#15
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Why the deep sea and not the shallow areas which are probably a lot more practical?

	26-07-2003 03:59									#16
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SeaQuest was a real show (ie, not a cartoon) on a few years back.

here's a link of fansites: http://seaquest.net/

i saw a couple of episodes. nothing great

	26-07-2003 04:10									#17
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Who would want to live at the bottom of the ocean? Maybe send some machines down there by remote control.

Floating or anchored to the ground oil-platform style... now that'd make a cool resort.

	26-07-2003 04:44									#18
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Somewhat On-Topic:
SeaQuest DSV was a great scifi show. The technologies weren't absurdly advanced like Star Trek, but it still felt futuristic. But when they changed the format with a more militaristic tone, they killed it. Scifi never does well in regular TV because most people think "If I don't understand Science, then I won't like scifi shows." B*llsh*t. I nearly pass out at the sight of open surgery, but I still enjoy E.R. I'm disgusted with Washington politics, but I still enjoy The West Wing. I find the genre of Medival-anything boring, but I still enjoy Samurai Jack. I absolutely hate reality TV, but I still watch The Osbornes from time to time.

Specifically On-Topic:
Underwater habitations are no more unlikely than any in space. Our current technologies (in processes and materials) are already at a place where we could start rudimentary settlements in both environments. Problem is the cost and peoples' willingness to brave the dangers inherent in colonizing new frontiers. Implossions, seaquakes, collisions are all real dangers...but not insurmountable. Finding financial backing for construction is all but impossible for the time being.

There are vast mineral riches to be found in the deep sea, but we have to be willing to get to them first. Mining is probably better left to automated mining operations, but opening the sea to inhabited settlements will help eliviate a great deal of population stresses in many countries. All the same can pretty much be said of space colonization.

	26-07-2003 04:48									#19
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The only reason for building up in space is to take advantage of the microgravity environment. The cost of moving things up there is huge. It is more economical to build on the moon first, which only requires a little more energy to reach than geosynchronous orbit. One can mine materials and lift into orbital space at 5% of the energy cost of lifting from Earth.

Deep sea is reachable at little energy cost via remote devices. No need to build down there, potentially more dangerous than space. By deep breathing a person can survive exposure to vaccuum as long as loss of pressure is gradual (over a few minutes), but cannot survive exposure to immense pressures of the deep (middle ear implodes, your brain gets crushed).

	26-07-2003 04:58									#20
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nuke subs, muthafukkas!!!

	26-07-2003 05:09									#21
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It isn't just lack-of-air that is a problem in space. Radiation and extreme temperatures aren't too friendly either. Being sucked out of the spaceship during an expolosive decompression will pop your eardrums just as quick. Your brain won't get squished, but that won't matter because you'll be flying away from the ship too fast for anyone to catch up with you before you're dead: reaction time to decompression, damage accessment, casualty check, rescue attempt...in that order. No one can hold their breath that long. And even if they could, they're done for anyway because of radiation is already having a grand old time with their DNA and temperatures are both cooking and freezing the corpsicle.

The danger is no greater or less than that of the deep sea. Just different problems.

	26-07-2003 05:10									#22
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The pressure difference for construction is a bigger issue at sea, though. 15 PSI versus hundreds to thousands of PSI.

	26-07-2003 05:17									#23
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I doubt settling the *Edit: let me doublecheck that name...* would be a very smart idea, but certainly the pressure on continental shelf is managable.

I fully support automation for the deepest depths, but for the shallows there's a place for people.

	26-07-2003 05:43									#24
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Space would be easier to colonize.

	26-07-2003 05:53									#25
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs I doubt settling the *Edit: let me doublecheck that name...* would be a very smart idea, but certainly the pressure on continental shelf is managable. I fully support automation for the deepest depths, but for the shallows there's a place for people.

The shallows (relative term here) give you a different set of structural design issues, with surge, temperature gradients, storm effects, etc. Then there's a problem with anchoring structures on uneven, non-compactible base material, dewatering, condensation, etc. Then you get the wondrous corrosive effects of sea water, (it'll kill any grade of stainless steel), and even at shallow depths, pressure is not trivial - you add one atmosphere of pressure for every ten meters of depth.

Breathing is a problem, unless you stick to atmospheric air pressure (a problem in the structural design), or gas mixtures (expensive to support).

	26-07-2003 07:16									#26
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The shallows (relative term here) give you a different set of structural design issues, with surge, temperature gradients, storm effects, etc. Then there's a problem with anchoring structures on uneven, non-compactible base material, dewatering, condensation, etc. Then you get the wondrous corrosive effects of sea water, (it'll kill any grade of stainless steel), and even at shallow depths, pressure is not trivial - you add one atmosphere of pressure for every ten meters of depth. Breathing is a problem, unless you stick to atmospheric air pressure (a problem in the structural design), or gas mixtures (expensive to support).

I like the ocean.

	26-07-2003 07:23									#27
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quote: Originally posted by TCO nuke subs, muthafukkas!!!

dumbasses trying to make a home under the ocean.

only the sub goes down there.

	26-07-2003 07:25									#28
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Albert, there is a certain amount of mineral wealth in the oceans - but one thing space has that the ocean hasn't is sunlight.

A lot easier to power a spacecraft than a deep sea ocean habitat.

I guess space and sea will happen at a similar rate - we'll need those minerals and will work out ways to get them - but whole communities underwater? Doubtful when you could build them floating on top with less grief.

OK, you get weather on the top - and you get earthquakes on the bottom. No easy answers sometimes.

	26-07-2003 07:26									#29
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We;ve ****ed up the ocean enough i wouldn't want to mess it up even more

	26-07-2003 07:27									#30
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power is easier in space. Solar, etc.

But it is easyier to get the heavy sheilding and such for a nuke down to an ocean area. Also the ocean has a heat sink. I'm not sure why you would want to be in an ocean anyway....

I don't really have an opinion which would be easier. It is neat to think about. I suspect that buliding in the shallows would be easier.