29-07-2003 01:02									#121
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Sure. Uh-huh.

	29-07-2003 01:03									#122
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Which is worse creating a light-hearted poster using photoshop or effectively saying "I want you and your people to die."?

	29-07-2003 01:52									#123
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* In first-past-the-post elections - unless you're particularly stupid or American - you vote for a candidate, not a party.

I don't see the distinction

It does strike me as odd that someone without a good grasp of English would consider running for office or would have been naturalised...

	29-07-2003 01:54									#124
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...then again, Prescott made it to deputy PM so I don't see a problem

	29-07-2003 01:56									#125
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And Cook to Foreign Secretary...

	29-07-2003 07:17									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Hey I didn't create AIDS.

Certainly not, because logic and commonsense seem to be beyond you, let alone biochemistry, organic chemistry, physics, molecular biology, etc, etc.

Diseases aren't sexuality specific you know- H.I.V. infects HUMANS. And, by the way- A.I.D.S. is a 'syndrome' not a disease. You might want to learn the difference before exposing your ignorance for us all to laugh at.

How did you get into higher education? Some kind of quota system? They let you in and everyone else's grades look better?

	29-07-2003 07:32									#127
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Let me get this straight- this guy is currently applying for asylum? Doesn't this imply that he is not yet a citizen? Why would any country allow a non-citizen to hold an elected seat? Imagine if I were to fly a whole bunch of Texans over there and have one of the Bush family elected to Parliament? Hey, here's an idea- boat the whole of southern England over to Ireland and elect Ireland back into the UK- effectively ending the whole IRA problem.

	29-07-2003 07:45									#128
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Yep, it'd be much better to have a rep that isn't able to understand his constituents.

	29-07-2003 08:08									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Yep, it'd be much better to have a rep that isn't able to understand his constituents.

Are the two mutually exclusive?

	29-07-2003 08:09									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Yep, it'd be much better to have a rep that isn't able to understand his constituents.

A failing that never seemed to hold back all those non-Spanish speaking or comprehending Anglo politicians in the states taken from Mexico. Or those in Quebec, who couldn't or wouldn't speak French. Or Tlingit, Athabascan, or frankly any language other than English.

Surprising how being monolingual is an advantage when you're white and English speaking only.

	29-07-2003 08:24									#131
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well, you would think the other party(ies) would have been able to run a campaign that at least informed the voters that this man couldn't speak English.

Either way the people elected him, therefore he should be able to hold office and have a translator.

However, the idea of labeling people who do not support him as racist is absurd. There is too much name calling in politics.

	29-07-2003 13:32									#132
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quote: Surprising how being monolingual is an advantage when you're white and English speaking only.

When in Rome...

It's not an advantage here in Canada, or in France to speak English only.

	29-07-2003 14:23									#133
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Given the state of local politics in many parts of england a councillor who actually tries to represent his constituents, even if he has difficulty with English, is a lot better than those elected on a party ticket who are then never seen again for four years.

	29-07-2003 22:45									#134
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Certainly not, because logic and commonsense seem to be beyond you, let alone biochemistry, organic chemistry, physics, molecular biology, etc, etc. Diseases aren't sexuality specific you know- H.I.V. infects HUMANS. And, by the way- A.I.D.S. is a 'syndrome' not a disease. You might want to learn the difference before exposing your ignorance for us all to laugh at. How did you get into higher education? Some kind of quota system? They let you in and everyone else's grades look better?

Where did I say it was a disease?

All I said that I and people like me didn't create it.

	29-07-2003 22:47									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Where did I say it was a disease? All I said that I and people like me didn't create it.

No-one made it.

	29-07-2003 22:49									#136
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So it was just *ping* and it was there?

	29-07-2003 22:50									#137
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This is a pretty lame troll, Bods. You're over-doing it. Not even you could really be this stupid.

	29-07-2003 22:50									#138
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Well I doubt anyone formed it in a petri dish.

Go on then, who made AIDS? *sigh*

	29-07-2003 23:12									#139
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I don't think you can technically create a syndrome.

	30-07-2003 02:44									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's So it was just *ping* and it was there?

Evolution Mr Spink...Evolution...HIV (for christ's sake, the virus is HIV, AIDS is a syndrome which can develop due to depletion of the immune system due to HIV infection). It is thought that HIV could have spread to humans from apes. It may have been the case that when certain vaccines were being created, serum from apes was used, which can be infected by SIV (simian immunodeficiency virus). As you are aware, these retroviruses can mutate very rapidly and change protein structures very quickly. One small change that adapts it to recognise a slightly different form of gp120 and wham...it can infect a different species. For example, FIV (feline)...it affects many species when there is the chance of an exchange of fluid...

	30-07-2003 03:22									#141
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You're wrong! God made it to kill The Gays!

	30-07-2003 04:04									#142
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Certainly not, because logic and commonsense seem to be beyond you, let alone biochemistry, organic chemistry, physics, molecular biology, etc, etc. Diseases aren't sexuality specific you know- H.I.V. infects HUMANS. And, by the way- A.I.D.S. is a 'syndrome' not a disease. You might want to learn the difference before exposing your ignorance for us all to laugh at. How did you get into higher education? Some kind of quota system? They let you in and everyone else's grades look better?

The name Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome was coined back around 1979 when it wasn't certain whether the cases under study had a common cause. We now know that AIDS is caused by HIV infection, so it definitely is considered a disease now.

	30-07-2003 05:58									#143
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Bodd's and red_jon are both banned for however long I decide on my way home from the office. You two will be among the first to know.

I'll sort out the rest later, for now, you may feel free to consider it a simple, tyranical act of arbitrary power.

	30-07-2003 06:32									#144
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So in the UK any citizen of a Commonwealth country can vote or run for office? I'm fairly certain that Pakistan, the country from which Mr. Ali hails and of which he is a citizen, is not a member of the EU, so he can't be using EU citizenship as the basis for claiming the right to hold elected office in England. I thought that back in the 1960s the UK severely curtailed the rights of Commonwealth citizens to claim the rights of British citizenship in order to keep themselves from being inudated by people flooding in from the turmoil in the newly independent former colonies?

	30-07-2003 08:30									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove The name Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome was coined back around 1979 when it wasn't certain whether the cases under study had a common cause. We now know that AIDS is caused by HIV infection, so it definitely is considered a disease now.

You're out by three years (first use of the term was in 1982).

You still don't seem to be aware of the difference between a disease and a syndrome. A syndrome is a set of symptoms or a combination of symptoms at the same time, as a result of contracting or developing a disease. You're putting the cart before the horse.

As for Bodds disingenuously asking 'when did he say the syndrome was a disease?', he merely highlights the error of bigots like him who confuse and conflate the human immuno-deficiency virus with its resultant SYNDROME.

The Pasteur Institute in Paris isolated H.I.V. in 1983, and in 1984 it was discovered that A.I.D.S. was a result of infection with H.I.V. .

No-one had to make H.I.V.- like smallpox, syphilis, and influenza, it's simply another disease that has evolved/mutated.

	30-07-2003 14:28									#146
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quote: Originally posted by elijah If the guy can do the job, and presumably his ethnicity is an asset in his region, then I dont see why not.

In fact, this guy knowing Urdu (or whatever his first language is) is probably rather advantageous for him to carry out his office since he can communicate better with the local constituents.

	30-07-2003 17:25									#147
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There appears to be a few issue's that come out of this, Can English councilors be elected when they are not British Citizens ??? Im not sure about that ..

Did he have the right to demand council money for translation ??

And was the person who attacked this action (demanding money for translation) racist or not ??

Im sure somebody could look the first issue up....

Second issue, Im wondering if there are any welsh councilors (born and bread in wales) who cannot speak welsh ??? Well, I think its important that any politician speaks English clearly .. I know a few who's accents are so strong, you wonder if they are speaking English anyway ...

Finally, was the chap racist ??

There is a lot of strong feelings about this... I personally hate the term "Ethnic Minority" .. especially when that often best describes the white/european population, in places like Southall ... It just has a conitation of insignificance (I admit, thats probably just my own opinion).

There is a general feeling amongst white people, that they are unable to criticise other individuals of ethnicity, without it being a race issue .. and thats very frustrating.

There is a general feeling amongst people of non-white ethnic origin, that white people often unknowingly make racial comments, and judgements ..

All I can say is this ..

Being the victim of racism, feels like being accused of it, when you were not ..

I think unless you have direct evidence, you cannot accuse people willie-nillie of being racist, it only serves to undermine a valid racist claim, when you make one, and serves nobody, but the racists themselves.

	30-07-2003 17:43									#148
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quote: There is a lot of strong feelings about this... I personally hate the term "Ethnic Minority" .. especially when that often best describes the white/european population, in places like Southall ...

doesn't it just...

<--- former resident

about wales, i'd put money on the fact that the majority of welsh concilors can't speak welsh, like most people in wales.

	30-07-2003 18:35									#149
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The report on the Beeb that Bods quoted from clears up the point on the interpreter, except for some reaosn Bods chose not to quote that bit...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/...ter/3033780.stm

"But Mr Ashley hit back, saying the suggestion that the council would pay for an interpreter was made by council officers.

He said a Lib Dem friend had accompanied Mr Ali at his first council meeting as his translator, but the council had insisted a Town Hall-approved interpreter be used in future."

In other words it was the council that insisted on a council interpreter.

And:

"(Mr Ashley) added: "Richard Leese obviously thinks scoring a few party political points is more important than 15 years of joint work on equality.

"He should check his facts with council officers before selling his principles for a few soundbites in the press."

Councillor Ali is allowed to serve as a councillor as Pakistan is a member of the Commonwealth. "

In other words Leese was pushing for political points here, and nothing else.

	30-07-2003 18:42									#150
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I find it hard to believe that this thread got to page 5 without anyone checking eligibility to be a councillor. Then again I am employed as a town clerk and even I had a bit of trouble finding something understandable.

http://www.valeroyal.gov.uk/TheCoun...councillor.html

From another site, Whealdon Borough Council, it is clear that citizens of Pakistan are eligible to vote in UK local elections. So this man is eligible and properly elected even though he does not yet have asylum in the UK.

The big problem in the UK is now IMHO the racism industry which provides employment for hordes of useless people who would struggle to find anything worthwhile to do and who offer little to the genuine victims of racist mistreatment. I feel like throwing something at the TV whenever that ? Khan s**t appears ambulance chasing his latest racism legal case.

As for the use of welsh, I used to work for an organisation that dealt with town and community councils in wales. Conducting council business exclusively in welsh was mainly practiced by a group of councils in North Wales who did it for racist reasons - they wanted to keep the english out. So if an english person bought a house in a village in Denbighshire (or whatever they call sheep****ger country now) they could not get onto the community council unless they learnt to speak welsh. AFAIK it still goes on but isn't "racist"