27-07-2003 07:29									#1
	Hollywood's new message: Be good, moral upstanding citizens and quit ripping us off.. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

After decades of promoting the self serving, immoral rebel image, Hollywood finds itself the victim of crime on a truly huge scale. People are downloading movies from the internet by the hundreds of thousands, and watching them for free. Immoral? Certainly. It's stealing. Stealing is bad, you recall it's even one of the 'ten commandments'. Anyway, I think Hollywood is reaping as it has sewn.

I just got through watching a Hollywood bigwig on the news explaining how being law abiding is a cornerstone of our civilization. Well I agree. I just never expected to hear such stuff from Hollywood. I've seen big brother hating stars who whine that the law isn't protecting them. Well, it's a law abiding citizenry who create a system by which they are governed. If you undermine the morality of the citizenry as Hollywood has done, don't be too shocked when the self serving buggers rip you off first chance they get.

	27-07-2003 07:41									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

I'd post a three-page argument on how the concept of intellectual property as a whole is flawed, but my apathy exceeds my caring. Thus:

HOLY WODE SCUKS!!!!!!!!!111

	27-07-2003 07:44									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

mrM, I don't wear Apolytonwear because posts don't count in the OT.

	27-07-2003 07:45									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell I'd post a three-page argument on how the concept of intellectual property as a whole is flawed,

That'd be a whole lot of twaddle.

	27-07-2003 07:47									#5
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Let's napalm their little 90210 babies.

	27-07-2003 07:50									#6
	Remove this text

You criminals, you provide nothing, NOTHING, and yet you want to destroy Hollywood!

Think of all the hours of joy they have given you, those poor souless bastards.

	27-07-2003 08:01									#7
	Re: Hollywood's new message: Be good, moral upstanding citizens and quit ripping us o Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Re: Hollywood's new message: Be good, moral upstanding citizens and quit ripping us off..

Dear Hollywood,

You first.

	27-07-2003 08:18									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, at least they're not the RIAA.

	27-07-2003 08:23									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yeah. Instead, they're the MPAA. The same thing for a different industry.

	27-07-2003 08:29									#10
	Tired of ads?

Look at the bright side, at least nobody has asked 'what are the 'ten commandments' of which you speak? Something Kennedy said?

	27-07-2003 08:33									#11
	Suffering from ads?

Hollywood deserves it. Plain and simple.

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!

	27-07-2003 08:33									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Oh, no! You mean those celebrities will be a tiny percentage less wealthy? Good God!

	27-07-2003 08:50									#13
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Look at the bright side, at least nobody has asked 'what are the 'ten commandments' of which you speak? Something Kennedy said?

Just because someone wrote it in a book doesn't make it true

	27-07-2003 08:55									#14
	Got spare money?

"Just because someone wrote it in a book doesn't make it true"

Doesn't mean its crap either.

Hollywood found the moral code when Hollywood needed the moral code. The code is a hell of alot more moral than Hollywood however...

	27-07-2003 15:54									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis Just because someone wrote it in a book doesn't make it true

It is true and it will help guide you through life and help be an upright person.

"Help" I say, because you need Jesus Christ in your life and even then our "Humaness" leads us intto Sin.

Christ paid the price for us so that we have eternity in Heaven.


I know this is a thread about how 1 sin (Hollywood promoting various wrongdoings on film) VS another Sin (the consumer public via internet taking free downloads) so I guess the thinking here is we have no accountability in theft?

kinda like saying..its ok to steal..because someone else did it?

or its ok to steal because someone else had sex outside of marriage?

or its ok to steal because someone did illegal and illicit drugs?

Stealing is wrong and although it may not have the moral impact of murder or rape, it is still theft.

Peace

Grandpa Troll

	27-07-2003 20:57									#16
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I really don't think that "copying things without permission" is morally equivalent to "actively stealing or removing something from a person's possession", but that's just me.

Using the Bible doesn't help that argument any either, since when that book was written such a concept didn't exist, and AFAIK God (or anything/one else) hasn't authorized anyone to interpret it in such a manner (to put it lightly), to "update" its meaning/content.

Of course, that's still breaking the law, but only the obviously flawed human law, IMHO.

	27-07-2003 21:10									#17
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quote: It is true and it will help guide you through life and help be an upright person.

Only if we ignore all the parts of the Bible where God commands "the chosen people" to slaughter the male inhabitants of a land, enslave their women and children, stone all the sinners, etc...

	27-07-2003 21:23									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hollywood offering a moral message?

We'll be having childcare lessons from Josef Mengele next.

Hollywood, it's payback time!

	27-07-2003 21:30									#19
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quote: kinda like saying..its ok to steal..because someone else did it?

That's not near what we're saying. You see, Hollywood ("HOLY WODE") releases a lot of trash content to the world. When we watch this content, if it's really good, a little bit might rub off on us. (You could say the same happens when you read a book.) Thus, if Hollywood can only come up with good movies about theft, bribery, and corruption, then over time the American populace will be come theives. It's more of an argument that they gradually changed our mindset and now we can't do any better than "they did it so now we can."

Oh yeah, and by the way, I don't think the Bible and analogies are going to convince a lot of us that downloading illegal stuff is wrong.

	27-07-2003 21:39									#20
	Re: Hollywood's new message: Be good, moral upstanding citizens and quit ripping us off.. Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Lancer After decades of promoting the self serving, immoral rebel image, Hollywood finds itself the victim of crime on a truly huge scale. People are downloading movies from the internet by the hundreds of thousands, and watching them for free. Immoral?

I don't see how lost revenue due to technological advancement is either moral or immoral.

If they want to stop it dead in its track, they should do the same thing when dual deck VCRS came out: lower the price of DVDs to an extent that downloading isn't worth it.

	27-07-2003 22:38									#21
	Re: Re: Hollywood's new message: Be good, moral upstanding citizens and quit ripping us off.. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay If they want to stop it dead in its track, they should do the same thing when dual deck VCRS came out: lower the price of DVDs to an extent that downloading isn't worth it.

DVD's don't cost that much and those that do come with loads of extras, ex FotR Special Edition.

	27-07-2003 22:54									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

^ Yeah, the movie execs have been smart enough to date to keep DVD prices low enough that downloading movies just isn't worth it.

It's the record execs who need to be slapped silly for perpetuating overpriced CDs and suing their own customer base .

	27-07-2003 23:00									#23
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If we don't stop ripping them off how are they going to be able to afford their cocaine habits?!

	27-07-2003 23:15									#24
	Re: Hollywood's new message: Be good, moral upstanding citizens and quit ripping us off.. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Stealing is bad

Sounds like the guidance councilor on South Park.

Intellectual property wasn't even a concept when the Bible was written. And I'd love to see an argument for the morality of intellectual property - usually arguments for IP are framed in efficiency terms.

quote: Well, it's a law abiding citizenry who create a system by which they are governed. If you undermine the morality of the citizenry as Hollywood has done, don't be too shocked when the self serving buggers rip you off first chance they get.

Ah, you're another boring social conservative scold. No wonder.

	28-07-2003 00:03									#25
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oh the irony. after years of promoting lawlessness as "cool", it bites them in the ass. I love it.

	28-07-2003 00:06									#26
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Hollywood can suck a fat one. America made them rich, paying to see their movies... and now those greedy ****s want to attack a few people who burn DVD's or trade movies. **** OFF *******S!

I'll take their claims and attacks against piracy seriously when I see Arnold, J-Lo, Aff-LACK, or any other celebrity standing in line for food stamps or getting unemployment.

	28-07-2003 00:09									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Let's analyze the two forms of stealing a bit shall we?

You have one form of stealing in which you physically remove a DVD from a store. That store is now out the cost they paid for the DVD. The owners, shareholders etc are affected by this. You are essentually stealing money from the pockets of the owners and shareholders.

If you get a pirated movie you had no intention of buying in the first place, you are stealing from no one. No one is hurt.

The key to this argument is that you had no intention of buying the DVD in the first place. Because if you do intend on buying the DVD, then you are taking potential money out of someone's pockets.

This is how I am with my mp3's. I don't download mp3's in lieu of buying cd's. I still buy the cd's I want to- just bought Metallica's new album. What I do is download mp3's of all my cassettes that I don't plan on upgrading ( I just don't like them enough to buy the cd). I don't have the money to upgrade every single one of my cassette tapes to CD. So when I download say and old Dio tune, I am not taking away potential profits. I had no intention of ever buying Dio's Last in Line CD. Or I just download mp3's of these one hit wonders you hear on the radio. I have no intention of buying CD's from one hit wonders. But I like the song enough I want to hear it again. In the old days, I'd just tape it on a cassette from the radio. Now I don't have to do that.

	28-07-2003 00:10									#28
	Tired of ads?

quote: ^ Yeah, the movie execs have been smart enough to date to keep DVD prices low enough that downloading movies just isn't worth it.

Indeed. DVDs are, compared to music, a great value...

	28-07-2003 00:15									#29
	Tired of ads?

And used DVD's can be like $5-10 at Blockbuster or other video stores.

	28-07-2003 00:29									#30
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good point.

after looking at DVD prices, one can conclude that CD's are horribly overpriced.

even the old ones only drop to $12.99 or so. They have to be completely worthless artists and no-names for them ever to reach the bargain bins of the supermarket.

You can't tell me there is no price fixing going on. As a DVD costs more to produce than a CD. Yes even DVD's have their own production teams that have to lay out the audio tracks, and put special features on etc.

I have no problem buying DVD's. I do it all the time. They are more reasonable than CD's by a long shot. Of course as I noted above, I do buy CD's of artists I like a lot. But not everyone.