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Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
11-09-1999 09:26 | www
edit | quote
#1 | report |
I am not impressed Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2


I had high expectations of the scenarios submitted for SDC but I'm quite disapointed. I mean, all of the scenarios are quite nice, but (most of them) not "state of the art". Often small readme's, no title.gif files, mediocre art, wierd story lines, etc. If they should be reviewed for Sleague I expect that the average score would be something like 20 out of 30. Some entries are somewhat better then the others though and I expect it to be a battle between Archer, Barron and Foster.

Archer really suprised me with it's art...but changing land into water doesn't really work I think...and also all those Off Topic names (Ming, Steward Spink, etc) kinda spoil the atmo. Also fighting Microsoft with Volkswagen is really much to weird to be taken seriously. But the artwork is superb...

Dietz had a really nice idea of creating huge urban districts...but he went just a bit to far. The world is almost completely covered!

What REALLY suprised me is the fact that none of the scenarios is a multiparter. I expected at least 2 or 3 scenarios with more then one chapter.

One last note...is Moore's entry even legal? In the briefing it sais: "only the Cargolanders are meant for play". I thought there had to be several playable nations...or am I missing something?

reismark
Emperor
Paragon of Virtue
Jan 1970
time: 00:13
10-09-1999 22:27 | www
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#2 | report |
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri


Mark L: If that is the case, it probably will suffer in Blackclove's judging.

mrtemba
Bloomington, IN, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
11-09-1999 04:05
edit | quote
#3 | report |
Inflate your Upload Space


and archer should have been illegal too, weren't we supposed to use the mdaumen map?

my own entry (not saying anything) isn't complete, neither do I think are any of them, did you people really expect high quality multi part scenarios in three months? Most of the authors, ok at least me, were working on other project(s) at the same time, not to mention all the non-computer activities there are in life. Spartacus took a year to make.

so far barron and baum are my favorites, but I haven't played much or got the sounds yet.

Some points....

I like it better when the world ISN'T revealed, that was one of the main reasons I didn't like Archer or Dietz, where is the joy of exploring?

Some of the events file were very very bad. Some were very good. Oh well, I need to play more before I make more comments.

Michael Daumen
Prince
Research Triangle
Jan 1970
time: 00:13
11-09-1999 05:15 | www
edit | quote
#4 | report |
Get a bigger avatar today!


Given the limits of Civ2 (especially in light of straight sci-fi games like SMAC) and the broad topic (and the blah map), I think it was extremely hard to make a scenario that blows everyone away (although I don't think I've ever read Mark expressing approval about anything). You can't just ask for a big events file without setting up some parameters for what it should have. To justify multiple event files you need a long plot, and I felt the "Earth 3000" idea was too general for that. What struck me at first impression were the many different endgames that seem to be used.

MagyarCrusader
Emperor
Fascist
Jan 1970
time: 21:13
11-09-1999 09:08
edit | quote
#5 | report |
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete


I disagree with you Mark. I am very impressed with what I've seen. Although there are a few I didn't download, I was especially impressed with Archer and Barron. Foster also seems to have some potential, and I'm not so sure about Sagan because it seems to have events as its appeals and I won't know what these "secrets" are until I actually play it.

What I'm wondering is how can these scenarios be as good as they are, and there are no good recent scenarios?!

BTW, great job everyone on sound! I had a problem downloading the first sound file for archer... I hope this inspires more people to create new sounds, because they are great! Some of these are very creative, like the spy sound in sagan. ah yea.

NickC
Prince

May 1999
time: 05:13
11-09-1999 16:35 | www
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#6 | report |
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Mark, I thought they were great! I don't know what you are smoking.

Mr.Temba, I thought you said you were done with your entry the first month cuz you worked on it day and night. At least that's what you told me in Javachat.


------------------
Nick Crown (Greek.)
Yasou!

Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
11-09-1999 19:30 | www
edit | quote
#7 | report |
Support Apolyton


Yeah, Archer is illegal to now I think of it...although water still looks like water it is in fact land. I don't think this is allowed, is it?

Well, I did expected more of this to be honest...but 3 months isn't that much time of course. Well, there are still some great entries though.

MD: I really like some scenarios a lot Mongols, New Germany, Ansteig, Up the Deadly Boot, Dawn of the Dead, Shanarra, etc...

I don't know, I just expected more of you guys (whoever you are). I mean I'm a relative rookie in scenario building and some creations some of you created before really blew me away. Naive as I was I expected this contest to deliver some nearly perfect scenarios...this isn't possible of course since the time constraints. But after playing some again I find them quite good. I think my expectations were just a bit to high

After playing again I liked Sagan a bit better then at first sight. Archer isn't that good anymore I think since it totally lacks an apropriate atmo. I still find battles between McDonalds and Sony a bit to weird, and those OT names really ruin it a bit. It's more of a parody then a "realistical" scenario. so I think it'll be between Foster, Sagan and Barron...

Overdrive
Warlord
GD of Luxembourg
Mar 1999
time: 05:13
11-09-1999 19:41 | www
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#8 | report |
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By the way the -OH YEAH-Sound of the spy in Sagan seems to be DJ Rob Gee....

Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
11-09-1999 19:53 | www
edit | quote
#9 | report |
Increase the size of your Attachments


I didn't download the sounds yet...are they any good?

Overdrive
Warlord
GD of Luxembourg
Mar 1999
time: 05:13
11-09-1999 22:44 | www
edit | quote
#10 | report |
Put an end to popups!


Most are new...some are very funny!

Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
11-09-1999 23:33 | www
edit | quote
#11 | report |
Support Apolyton


Then I'll download them

About Archers entry, I've re-read the rules:
quote:
Some editing of the map is permitted, and is limited to the inclusion of extra rivers, changing a
limited amount of terrain squares from ocean to land (or vice versa), and changing a limited amount of terrain squares to allow more customization as long as the original vegetation is left more or less intact.


Therefor Archer's entry is illegal since ALL terrain and ocean squares were altered, and the original vegitaion is completely changed.

mrtemba
Bloomington, IN, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
12-09-1999 02:09
edit | quote
#12 | report |
Support Apolyton


i said i had a lot done, but nope given six months I could improve it a lot, I still think its pretty good given the short notice. But I don't have time yet to play more so I'll comment later.

Overdrive
Warlord
GD of Luxembourg
Mar 1999
time: 05:13
12-09-1999 07:42 | www
edit | quote
#13 | report |
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You seem to be right about ARCHER, but I thought it was a courageous act...
I am still playing first scenario SAGAN and that means i enjoy it.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Overdrive (edited September 11, 1999).]</font>

reismark
Emperor
Paragon of Virtue
Jan 1970
time: 00:13
12-09-1999 19:27 | www
edit | quote
#14 | report |
Suffering from ads?


To all:

Allard has ruled that the Archer entry is indeed legal since it is keeping with the spirit of the map. I totally agree with him, because the true spirit of the SDC is to promote innovation in scenarios, and this is a truly original concept that has never been approached with this kind of success before. To disqualify Archer would be going against that spirit.

As for my opinion on Moore: The rules state that a minumum of two tribes must be PLAYABLE and be identifiable in some way. This does not necessarly mean that just because the scenario is INTENDED to be played with just one tribe that other tribes are not PLAYABLE. This could easily be the case. There isn't enough clear evidence to contend that there isn't another playable tribe in Moore's entry. Therefore, it should remain.

There's my opinion: Both should stay, and Allard's already deemed that Archer will.

blackclove
Guest

Not Yet
time:
13-09-1999 01:53
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#15 | report |
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I am on the whole very pleased with the entries. There were a few that I really got into. Some of them have a lot of potential but need a bit of work - they feel rather first-draft-y.

Allard HS
Prince
NL
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
13-09-1999 17:07 | www
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#16 | report |
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I would prefer to keep this in the other topic, but let's take that quote again:

quote:
Some editing of the map is permitted, and is limited to the inclusion of extra rivers, changing a
limited amount of terrain squares from ocean to land (or vice versa), and changing a limited amount of terrain squares to allow more customization as long as the original vegetation is left more or less intact.


As i remarked in the other thread, i haven't yet seen the scenario, but I assume that the map isn't really changed apart from the land->water and water-> land thing.
So, i can see that all land terrains have been modified into sea terrains in the terrainx.gif's. So.. what actually did change then? if we follow the rules it would be ok.

Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
13-09-1999 17:38 | www
edit | quote
#17 | report |
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quote:
as long as the original vegetation is left more or less intact.


If I made a scenario and changed all land squares into grassland would that be alright?

Allard HS
Prince
NL
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
13-09-1999 20:24 | www
edit | quote
#18 | report |
Remove this text


If you'd change all land squares to grassland it would turn out rather boring, i guess...

Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
13-09-1999 23:14 | www
edit | quote
#19 | report |
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri


alright, that would be boring...but is it legal? "as long as the original vegetation is left more or less intact." If I changed everything to grassland then the original vegitation wouldn't be "more or less intact".

Why else did we got a completely decorated map if it has no use? Why didn't we just got a complete grassland map to fill in as we see fit? This rule is a bit controversial. We can't suddenly create huge deserts in Europe for instance, but we can change ALL squares to grassland (or ocean). I simply don't understand that particular rule...can you explain?

Overdrive
Warlord
GD of Luxembourg
Mar 1999
time: 05:13
13-09-1999 23:35 | www
edit | quote
#20 | report |
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Well, I must agree with Mark. Now how far do you want to go to fight for originality?

Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
14-09-1999 00:03 | www
edit | quote
#21 | report |
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame


Don't get me wrong, I don't want Archer to be disqualified. Seriously. But I just don't understand this particular rule...and I'd like some kind of explanation about what is and what isn't legal.

MagyarCrusader
Emperor
Fascist
Jan 1970
time: 21:13
14-09-1999 04:38
edit | quote
#22 | report |
Remove this text


What! Mark I completely disagree!!! Of course you can turn Europe into desert! It would be part of the story... Something like a major nuclear catastrophe burned everything away on the continent.

Archangel
Guest

Not Yet
time:
14-09-1999 04:47
edit | quote
#23 | report |
Enter the AD-FREE zone


hmm...
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Archangel (edited September 13, 1999).]</font>

mrtemba
Bloomington, IN, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
14-09-1999 05:07
edit | quote
#24 | report |
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j'accuse!

Allard HS
Prince
NL
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
14-09-1999 14:59 | www
edit | quote
#25 | report |
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Alright, i agree. I propose a change of the rules to: "[..as long as the original vegetation is left more or less intact] or a good reason has been given and clearly described in the readme or in any other way for changing this."
But since the submissions are in, changing the rule hardly makes any difference.

The question now is, did anyone have any problems with this rule? I mean, did anyone (please use your codename when replying of course, or email me (ahofelt@hotmail.com)) change important things in his scenario because he was not allowed to change the terrain.
Personally, i don't think anyone has had a problem with it.

And I definately don't think Archer should be disqualified for this, since he asked me and i allowed him, so i take the responsability.

Overdrive
Warlord
GD of Luxembourg
Mar 1999
time: 05:13
14-09-1999 17:32 | www
edit | quote
#26 | report |
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My guess is thst it does not matter anyhow, as the Archer entry is not very playable due to lack of atmosphere.

Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
14-09-1999 23:53 | www
edit | quote
#27 | report |
Enter the AD-FREE zone


of course no disqualification, but that rule was just troubling me. At first I didn't even notice it was there, I began to look it up when Mr.Temba pointed it out.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Mark L (edited September 14, 1999).]</font>

mrtemba
Bloomington, IN, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
15-09-1999 03:07
edit | quote
#28 | report |
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yeah, let archer stay in this time. I don't think the rule was a problem, and I was just wondering because I doubt that that had "slipped by" you. I thought we had to use the map provided, but my scneario wouldn't have changed much if it had been different.

Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
15-09-1999 20:53 | www
edit | quote
#29 | report |
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2


Same for me...

Saint Marcus
King
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:13
16-09-1999 00:08 | www
edit | quote
#30 | report |
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life


The other scenarios and their sounds are really worth it. Archer isn't the best here by far...

 
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