30-07-2003 04:53									#61
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Ouch..... I can just see giving the 12-stack tile "move through" ability a bit of a problem.

Who wants to volunteer to try and work out the pathing engine to implement it THERE? Without comments in the code? Otherwise it's useless enabling it when the path engine don't know about it.

	30-07-2003 05:07									#62
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Why would u want to put comments in the code anyway ?

	30-07-2003 07:43									#63
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So when you forget what that part of the code did, you can just read what comments you put in when you knew what it did.

	30-07-2003 16:13									#64
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oh yea i see what u mean

i thought u meant comment out the parts of the code

using
;

or something, but yea comments are always handy (especially when they slag Microprose :P)

	30-07-2003 17:20									#65
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what about colonies

	30-07-2003 17:32									#66
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Returning to this forum after a log time at camp and an even loger time away from CTP2, this source code news had me delirious. However, I think it's important to fix the biggest bug first before we worry about making crazy additions. Here are my top 10, beginning with the most crucial:


1) Fix Sea Colonies Bug
2) Fix Diplomacy bugs i.e. gold for advance bug, flawed research pact, give city scroll bar, and diplomacy photos.
3) Fix Revolution=Game Crash bug.
4) Fix AI Handling of aircraft carriers and air units in general.
5) Reinstate hotseat and PBEM play.
6) Expand limits on buildings and Woders i.e. how the AI will not build more than 64 of the above and how cities can hold only a certain #.
7) Expand 200 Sprite limit.
8) Make AI respect borders.
9) Make the Veterans feature work.
10) Fix the more annoying bugs in the scenario editor.

THOSE DONE, AND CTP2 IS A MUCH BETTER GAME!!

Last edited by Chris B on 01-08-2003 at 10:01

	30-07-2003 17:35									#67
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i second that Chris B

that would create the patch that should have always been

once those have been done, it will create a strong foundation for all the extra additional stuff

	30-07-2003 17:36									#68
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Another thought is the UN. One thing I love about Civ games, yet it was never implemented properly. SMAC went close, though, while Civ 3 implementation is a joke. I had a pretty big list of things I want to see in the UN...

We'd need to add some new UI in source, as handling the UN via simple SLIC-driven messageboxes would not be good.

	30-07-2003 19:28									#69
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Solver, you're talking about united nations? If so, that is a good idea, (ie making it necessary/beneficial to get UN support before taking major action against another civ) Unless you have some other meaning for UN, at which point, I'm lost so please explain.

	30-07-2003 19:50									#70
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Sounds like a good one. In SMAC you needed aprovel of the council before you were able to commit the really bad things (OK, without to many bad feedback), maybe we should try it for CTP2 as well. Might also stop small nations, which you could overrun easily to declare war on you.........

And if you attack, the UN puts sanctions against you, like 25% of your income goes to this little nation

	30-07-2003 20:01									#71
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On Trade, what about giving some commerce bonus from the trade routes too because as it stands now the player NEVER needs to build trade routes. Even if gold was more scarce, devoting time and resources to caravans would still be counter-productive to what you *could* be building, ie settlers, units.

It would also add back a great layer of strategy on city placement that CTP2 sorely misses that CTP1 had. It doesnt need to be as powerful and overwhelming as CTP1 trade was, but some commerce bonus (as commerce basically wins the game in CTP1/2) from trade routes would add more strategic depth on city placement, rather than just placing cities in a perfect pattern on the coast.

	30-07-2003 20:28									#72
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United Nations, of course.... a summary of ideas to follow later.

Yeah, trade needs to be improved with larger bonuses... wouldn't hurt.

	30-07-2003 20:59									#73
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I was thinking that trade BETWEEN nations should be made sigificantly more valuable... so that there is a compelling reason for peace.

Perhaps the gold from trade should influence science, but only be significant when its international trade?

	30-07-2003 21:02									#74
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Not sure if the AI will be able to handle it..........

	30-07-2003 21:05									#75
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The AI *SHOULD* be able to handle it... in CTP2 trade route creation is abstracted, so you don't HAVE to get the caravan unit to where you want to trade to.

This makes the AI's trading job exponentially easier.

We might consider reducing the number of units that can break the routes, too.

	30-07-2003 21:09									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Chris B 3) Fix Revolution=Game Crash bug.

This is a Diplomod 3.6, just cut out some code from Diplomod.slc and the bug is fixed. I think it has to do something with the embassy tracking functions Dale made, obviously his arrays are the problem. Actual I expect an array out of bounce error message, but it must be something else, also the content of the arrays is with one more Civ screwed up.

Well some in-game Slic functions for embassy tracking could replace this, maybe we should reconsider the whole stuff with embassies and how they are created.

For trade I think trade goods should not only give gold to the civ but also food production, commerce and science. Of course not only as terrain boni but also as trade boni for the trade receiving city.

-Martin

	30-07-2003 21:12									#77
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I was thinking that we should implement Goodmod fields in the terrain.txt fields. We are on the same page

Oh, and fix all the good related functions in slic, including adding, changing and removing goods, of particular types.

	30-07-2003 21:13									#78
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MrBaggins,

I was reffering to your International/National difference...... Not sure if the human couldn't take advantage of it.

	30-07-2003 21:20									#79
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If we can base this on cost analysis (which the AI can do well) and ensure that the AI can build better, then the AI would seem to be competitive, at first glance.

Also consider that trade encourages peace, which should extend the game, and deepen the experience.

	30-07-2003 21:38									#80
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Okay, a next thing - what about improving the Random Map Generator? IMHO, the Civ 3 RMG is better... CtP2 creates some blobs of land too often, when I actually want continents that are shaped, uh, like continents.

	30-07-2003 22:06									#81
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What will happen with open source is that there are going to be several branches/varieties of CTP2 that develop over the next few years. Anybody here remember Rogue, Hack, and Larn (Unix game in the mid 80's)? I think we should focus on lifting the mod limits and fixing the bugs first. Once we have a clean version of the game then it's time to move on to implementing new features.

However, no everyone will want the same features, so the game will develop in branches (Will Cradle need a "space" feature?). There should be an official Apolyton game (CTP2 with the bugs fixed) that everyone can use as a reference/starting point.

It is difficult enough combining SLIC scripts -- Cradle and City expansion anyone? -- imagine combining source codes. If you want to do that, you need to get a C compiler. To the greatest extent possible we should try to make changes in total to the .cpp files that were used to craete the game. This way you can slip in a new .cpp file to your compile and use the changes fairly easily. The trouble will come with the small tweaks that require manually altering small parts of the code.

Check out freeciv to get a glimpse of where we are headed! http://www.freeciv.org/

	30-07-2003 22:27									#82
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I was thinking along the same lines... and yes, there are going to be many mods. I do believe that something with an improved AI ( a bit), bugs fixed, and misc. addons will be the "official baseline version", while the other enhancements made will allow modders to produce more and better mods.

	30-07-2003 23:43									#83
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quote: Originally posted by ahenobarb To the greatest extent possible we should try to make changes in total to the .cpp files that were used to craete the game. This way you can slip in a new .cpp file to your compile and use the changes fairly easily. The trouble will come with the small tweaks that require manually altering small parts of the code.

Without getting too far ahead of ourselves, we should probably consider selecting people to be the "Jedi" for different .cpp files. That is, they manage a team of people working on changes to a specific .cpp file and once it is functioning, they post the official new version of the file for use in the next compile.

This will work until the baseline version is created. After the baseline is done, chaos reigns!

	30-07-2003 23:54									#84
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Well, when there are many programmers, of course, they do it that way, some work at GUI, some at AI, some at MP, and whatnot.

However, with our (very) limited man resources, I believe that every programmer on the team will end up changing code from every area.

	31-07-2003 04:37									#85
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As for Trade, I would personally (eventually -- this is long-term thinking) like to completely revise the trade system. In real history, trade is of the utmost importance for all civilizations. Up until recently, historians used to think that civilizations were built on war (which at least partially explains why war has always been such a major ingredient in Civ games), but new research has proven this to be false: civilizations are built on trade. The very first civilizations that ever existed (Sumer, Minoans, Harappa, Shang, Caral, etc) came into existance because they developed increasingly complex ways of organizing society to cope with increasingly large and complex trade networks. In more recent times, colonial empires accumulated an unprecedented amount of wealth and power thanks to trade networks of unprecented scale. And today the US is a world power largely owing to the many American companies selling American products all over the world.

I'd like a trade system somewhat similar to Civ3, but more advanced: like Civ3, you need certain goods in your recourse box before you can build certain units. To get these resources, you must have them in your radius, or you must be connected to a network. But contrary to Civ3, IMO this shouldn't be a road network but rather a trade network. If you have a city with iron and a city with gold, you can only take advantage of the iron in city 2 by creating an iron trade route with city 1. The same with the gold: city 1 needs a gold route with city 2 to be able to take advantage of the gold. Both building and mainaining trade goods should come at a cost, which similarly to PW should be subtracted directly from the national income (not sure yet which resource(s) should be used for this). So no more building of Caravans.

Aside from that, I agree with MrBaggins that foreign trade should be much more valuable than national trade and that trade should contribute to science as well.

Of course, this system of mine would be a huge change with major implications on other parts of the game (the AI, for one thing). It would be a huge undertaking to implement and I'm sure not everyone will like it, so it shouldn't be part of a "official baseline version", to use Solver's terminology.

	31-07-2003 16:46									#86
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Excellent said Locutus, although that really does sound far-fetched. I wonder what SLIC enhancements would we need to create to make a similar trade model implementable through SLIC.

As for the current trade model, we can beef up the formula that determines profit from trade, and add a benefit... have it go to commerce, not gold, maybe, or have the total trade income broken proportionally into gold and science by using the civ-wide science setting.

	31-07-2003 17:13									#87
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I thick to start with we should add on some slic functions for less confident programmers for example a add slave command

Also adding city buildings that have a tile improvement attached like the city wall so people don’t have to go throw the source code this would open the bottom end of ctp to the part time moder who does not know c or slic.

Then we can add flags to other files like a flag in units that say can be enslaved so the enslaver is not forced to seek out settlers it can enslave special units like the slaver. As well as small wonders which any nation can build.

	31-07-2003 17:26									#88
	Increase the size of your Attachments

On my wishlist would be a "special attack chance" flag. E.g., I want an Infector, that has a 25% chance of infecting a city, and an UberKrux unit that has a 75% of doing so.

	31-07-2003 17:43									#89
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yes my point is we are all getting carried a way with possible new and complicated mod using the source code but we should also help the people on the forum who can't use c

	31-07-2003 17:57									#90
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We will... SLIC enhancements will allow people to create mods with newver and bigger stuff.