29-07-2003 22:41									#31
	Re: Minor Civlizations Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by SMIFFGIG Minor Civilizations, these would have 1 or 2 cities and couldnt expand and the cities had there own unique style they wouldnt come up or be part of the 7 or 6 civs already on the map, but you could ally with them and each minor civ would be powerful in some way for there size and have something unique about them e.g a Technology that was unique to them that allowed a unique unit or City improvement for example you could either gain this by killing them and hoping to steal it whilst looting there cities (wich wouldnt be a 100% chance) or by slowly gaining good relations with them then allying and eventually merging them into your civilization so all there cities become yours this peaceful way would gaurentee 100% that you would gain watever unique advantage that this minor civ has to offer. Im sure this would be difficult but with the source code it would also be possible

Would this be possible by making a"copy" of the barbarian computer player and changing the AI attitude and also creating a barbarian only tech (namd after the minor civ) that allowed for unique units, buildings, city styles, or units? This would be possible, but I wonder if it means we can go over the 32 civ unit since computers are much faster now.

	29-07-2003 22:51									#32
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Martin has a point... it's not that wise to bring in a ton of new feautures via editing the source code, it would be wiser to extend the mod abilities, so that you can do, say, space via mods and SLIC.

Like, minor civs are much better implemented through SLIC then, than source.

Yup, I also think that we should, at some point, come up with other stuff we miss from CtP1 and want to see back. Love CtP1 style rankings window, for instance.

And, another proposal - extend diplomacy. Create a bargaining table a-la Civ 3, to enable trading of 234 gold and Writing for Advanced Spaceflight .

	29-07-2003 23:05									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I think we have to be very careful about biting off more than we can chew; in fact we should go for a 'conservative expansion' of CTP2 ( @ Locutus).

	29-07-2003 23:19									#34
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Nah, a community can do anything... provided interest and enthusiasm exist. Sure, many great projects did fall apart quickly, but that was mainly because of people losing interest. Seeing how many of us have been playing CtP for 4 or 5 years, I do doubt that interest will fade. If anything, this got me nostalgic about the cool German sounds from my copy of CtP1. Gotta add those to CtP2...

	29-07-2003 23:30									#35
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

What has happened is a one off occurance

The source code, for a game that is only 3 years old!!

and with no other competiting games around it (Civ3 is not a very good game but has some nice features)

the only other game ive known the source code to be released for is DOOM..... and that was 10years after it was made.

The source code for CtP2 really does open many doors and i think once things start getting up and going and amazing mods/patches are being made for CtP2 the community will grow ALOT, thus more modders/programmers

	29-07-2003 23:31									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yeah, but enthusiasm for playing and enthusiasm for wading through acres of code and a hundred different versions to get a playable exe are two entirely different matters.

Also, hard-coding something which could be SLICed is counterproductive.

	29-07-2003 23:43									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

IW - many here have enthusiasm for modding .

Smiff, Doom source was released in 1995, while Doom 1 was a 1990 game.

	29-07-2003 23:45									#38
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quote: Smiff, Doom source was released in 1995, while Doom 1 was a 1990 game.

ok 5 years ....... always someone

	29-07-2003 23:50									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Bad luck, eh .

	30-07-2003 00:56									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Solver IW - many here have enthusiasm for modding .

and many more have enthusiasm for other people doing modding.

	30-07-2003 00:59									#41
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IW has a very good point

As much as i would love to make a mod for Ctp2 and am very enthusiastic, i cant mod myself.

Except for modding Tiberian Sun in a big way, the fact that many people are on these boards and have enthusiasim is really nothing when there is only a handful of modders

	30-07-2003 01:00									#42
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Re: Minor Civilizations idea

I think that the only one to benefit from this would be the human player, since it takes skill which the computer doesn't have to make certain value judgements. The AI is already challenged enough. I don't want the playing field turning into an "Alpha Centuri situation" for the AI.

	30-07-2003 01:13									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, yes, I understand and believe that there are going to be few people tampering with the source, but what I'm saying is, there WILL be those people, and stuff won't stop.

	30-07-2003 01:33									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Addition- Less cheesy scientific victory
Fix (if I recall correctly)- retreat ; just remove it

	30-07-2003 01:43									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How is retreat screwed?

Sci victory... hmm, well, I preferred the CtP1 one .

	30-07-2003 01:45									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Retreat is screwed in that the AI can't use it, so it just gives the human a totally unfair recon advantage. Even if the AI could use it, there's still an argument that it allows tactics that really shouldn't work.

	30-07-2003 01:52									#47
	Increase Your PM Length

And it allows you to keep capturing slaves, too. I guess MrBaggins is right.

	30-07-2003 02:22									#48
	Inflate your Upload Space

a VERY badly implemented feature

a Civ3 style retreat could be good where they auto retreat depending on the surrounding land, what unit they are and a % value

or even the current way but when u retreat u still recieve heavy losses
u just dont lose all ur men (usually)

	30-07-2003 03:06									#49
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I think we have to be very careful about biting off more than we can chew; in fact we should go for a 'conservative expansion' of CTP2 ( @ Locutus).

Id agree with that and as the thread title says we're just doing a little brainstorming, the only reason i mentioning increasing the 12 unit limit is because someone mentioned it in one of those "if only" threads a long time ago, the last thing youd want is a continually ongoing project with no end.

Working PBEM and no rushbuy bug is all id like to see.

	30-07-2003 03:08									#50
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quote: Working PBEM and no rushbuy bug is all id like to see

for now...........right ?

	30-07-2003 03:09									#51
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More than 12 units, though, would be changing one of key gameplay elements... do we really need to do that?

	30-07-2003 03:10									#52
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well even if u could only group 12 but allow many more on the same square just to move through

its stupid when u have armies of 12 and cant move something like a spy past them without de-grouping the army

	30-07-2003 03:14									#53
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quote: More than 12 units, though, would be changing one of key gameplay elements... do we really need to do that?

Ive seen a few people complain about that (particularly civ2 players) that they couldnt move more units along a road when they wanted to path units. This doesnt necessaily mean increasing the army capacity (this would be extremely difficult i imagine and needless really), just the number that can exist on one tile for movement.

	30-07-2003 03:15									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yep, I agree giving that for moving... but imagine this: your 12-stack stands, and you want to move a 3-stack of Pikes through. Ending your turn, you have 15 units then... and AI attacks that tile. Who defends? Only the 12-stack (fair) or all the units (realistic)?

	30-07-2003 03:17									#55
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allow units to move THROUGH the 12 stack but not end there last move in with the 12 stack (or end any turn in the 12 stack for this matter, to make it easier

	30-07-2003 03:21									#56
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Yeah, but that creates a problem with 1-move units. Sometimes I have had a chokepoint, and a 12 stack standing there. And, I can't get anyone through it... with that variant, I still won't be able to get my 1-move stacks through.

	30-07-2003 03:41									#57
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Your coming up with plenty of problems but not much Solving


On another subject, what about building barracks in cities that then produce veteran units as in Civ, as long as the veteran effect is fixed. I think this is conservative enough and adds a nice touch.

	30-07-2003 04:05									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Give me the code, and I shall Solve .

Barracks for veterans... hmm, they've now implemented getting veteran status via fights... I'd rather have Barracks allow unit upgrades or somesuch.

I assume fixing veteran effect is going to be easy - must be a simple bug.

	30-07-2003 04:16									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It does make sense that veterans gain it through experience rather than trained.

Im wondering how hard it would be to make the AI use the barracks to upgrade its units though. Probably another one for a mod rather than a enhancing patch.

	30-07-2003 04:24									#60
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It's all mods... we won't hardcode barracks to do something. We'll ehance SLIC to make that stuff possible .