27-07-2003 22:18									#1
	Creation of the UN and I lose??? Full PM-box? Change here!

Please, someone help me out with this. I have played a few games and every time the UN gets created and there is a vote for the secretary general, I lose the game. Doesn't matter who builds it or who I vote for. Why is that? What am I missing?? Thanks.



~GC

	27-07-2003 22:31									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You need to look at the Civs relations with you and others. Often by that point in the game you wil not be on such good terms and the vote will be hard to win.
I tend to not allow diplo wins. If it is on, you want to be the one to build the UN and not call for a vote if this look ugly.

	27-07-2003 22:33									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The UN vote is mostly dependent on public relations with the other civs. If your relations with other civs are bad then you probably won't get the vote. If the relations are good then one of the AI civs must have better relations (which is often the case since, especially at the higher difficulties, they are almost automatically cautious or annoyed with you). I don't know all the ins and outs of a UN win so maybe someone else can post with the statistics. I really don't care for a UN win (or loss), so I do everything I can to build the UN first to hold off the vote. Or just turn off the diplomatic win condition when starting a game.

Good luck.

	27-07-2003 22:34									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Should've known. Cross post with vmxa1.

	27-07-2003 22:54									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Thanks for the fast replies. I was the one that built it but Lincoln won the vote. So, if you win the vote you win with a diplomatic victory and if you lose, you lose?

	27-07-2003 22:58									#6
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Caligo Thanks for the fast replies. I was the one that built it but Lincoln won the vote. So, if you win the vote you win with a diplomatic victory and if you lose, you lose?

Correct. Unless you're sure of the outcome then don't hold the vote.

I'm not 100% positive because I've never actually won or lost by diplomatic victory (by choice), but can you play on after losing a UN vote?

	27-07-2003 23:09									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Once in a while a UN vote opportunity will come by just after I have saved the game. Then I'll often "cheat": Have the vote just to see if I win it; if I lose I can reload the game, if I win then I can quit if I feel satisfied, or reload and not hold the vote.

	29-07-2003 22:35									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I always build the UN just as insurance.By that point in the game, I've already killed at least one other Civ so nobody trusts me anymore. This means I'll win a space race without any panic with the final part in construction.

	29-07-2003 22:44									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I always play with the diplomatic victory turned off. The concept of putting 30, 40 hours into a game, winning in all other areas then losing the entire game in a beauty contest is a little too much for me.

Winning isn't much better. Very anti-climatic.

	30-07-2003 00:35									#10
	Got spare money?

The surest, but by no means certain, way to win the diplomatic vote is to identify the least popular AI civ (usually the strongest) and go to war with them just before you complete the UN. Then give the other AI's whatever it takes to get them into an alliance with you. They will then vote for you.

Once you complete the UN you will be offered the chance to take a vote every 20 turns IIRC.

	30-07-2003 02:00									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've won the Diplo Victory, its quick but nice to know everyone likes you

	30-07-2003 03:12									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Once you complete the UN you will be offered the chance to take a vote every 20 turns IIRC.

11 turns, actually. Now isn't THAT odd....

	30-07-2003 09:04									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

i like when i control all of one luxury. then, despite the economic loss, i'll constantly give it as a gift to everyone to keep most on polite..

	30-07-2003 14:12									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

I disagree with the consensus on diplowins. I used to play peaceful builder, using the peace dividend to out-produce and out-research all rivals. Arriving into the modern era as the clear leader and with a perfect reputation, I had no problems winning everyone's vote except the UN rival and the odd aggressor.

Nothing unsatisfying about the victory - I was the best civ so why do I have to kill everyone or even build an SS to prove it?

	30-07-2003 23:23									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I find it to be lame, but that is why they gave us lots of options for victory.

	31-07-2003 05:36									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I think the diplo win, not exploiting alliances, can actually be tough. I think experienced players should learn how to do it, at least, focusing on how to manage AI civ relations positively.

(vxma1, I know, not your style, but it's worth knowing how to do)

	31-07-2003 08:00									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Never said I did not know how to do it. I just said I am not interested in it. It tends to come along just as I am dishing out some pay back and I do not want to give that up. Smiles evil grin

	31-07-2003 09:00									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We need a new catch phrase.

There is the whole Dark Side thing...

and then there is vxma1.

"Mountain Sage... [hiss hiss]... I am your father (in AU 208)."

	31-07-2003 15:54									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I have turned the UN vote off. It's all about random

It always ends up, my worst enemy votes for me (The one I have been at war against, several times), while my ally during several wars (and always polite to me) votes for someone else

	01-08-2003 01:09									#20
	Re: Creation of the UN and I lose??? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Caligo Please, someone help me out with this. I have played a few games and every time the UN gets created and there is a vote for the secretary general, I lose the game. Doesn't matter who builds it or who I vote for. Why is that? What am I missing?? Thanks. ~GC

hi ,

can you attach a save please , .....

that would help a great deal in finding the A to your Q , ....

have a nice day

	01-08-2003 05:25									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

In my modded game, Iroquois and Arabs have started the UN.. i'm at war with the iroquois, the arabs will probably build it as iroqouis UN building city - Grand river has been destroyed by my cruiser ships.
I tried in a muck up game that when i rushed the UN using a leader, i got 4 votes for me, 4 for iroquois(they must have had biggest population) and 3 abstains.

NOTES: money helps win reputations, so try and capture rich nations cities to pillage their moneys.. let the city flip back and recapture till their are bankrupt of money.

I think the Diplomatic win is fun, but it takes place a bit early .. right at the beginning of the modern era.
IT allows more of a strategic game, thinking who can be voted for , as its the highest population or biggest territory of civ, or the owner of the UN building.. population is the main factor.

I'm going to let the civs build the UN and then capture it quickly .. and not call for a vote unless I can't win by space ship or domination victory.
I can't win by conquest i think, though i'm only at year 1830ad, maybe by End game score but that will be a long way off.

Its best to get everyone to ally against the person going in the UN vote.. or enough to swing the vote so they can't win.

All games require you have wars and conquer other civs, unless your on the lowest difficulty.. I think war is fun in civ3 anyhow.. peace is for hippies

	01-08-2003 10:02									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ NOTES: money helps win reputations, so try and capture rich nations cities to pillage their moneys.. let the city flip back and recapture till their are bankrupt of money.

That seems a bit risky. What happens if they do not flip or it take many turns?

	02-08-2003 04:29									#23
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ All games require you have wars and conquer other civs, unless your on the lowest difficulty..

That's not true. I've had 2 or 3 games at higher levels when I had not fought a war the entire game. And boy, was I surprised too.

I look at the U.N. as a bit of an equalizer. I usually build it so that I can block the vote. If I am ahead militarily or scientifically, I am mindful that I can still lose if someone else builds the U.N.

	03-08-2003 16:48									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I turn off diplomatic, just for the reasons given. I've also changed what the UN wonder does, so it is still worth building.

	03-08-2003 20:30									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Quasar1011 That's not true. I've had 2 or 3 games at higher levels when I had not fought a war the entire game. And boy, was I surprised too. I look at the U.N. as a bit of an equalizer. I usually build it so that I can block the vote. If I am ahead militarily or scientifically, I am mindful that I can still lose if someone else builds the U.N.

hi ,

seconded , even with 31 civs on deity

war is not always the option to win neither , .....

have a nice day

	03-08-2003 22:03									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I hate diplo victory. It is very unsatisfying. I might be some tiny civ and I've been doing poorly and then I win the game. But I don't feel good about winning. Or, I'll be doing very well, way stronger then the other civs. A domination victory might be in sight. And then, the game will be over, I win because a vote. It is not fun.

quote: hi , seconded , even with 31 civs on deity war is not always the option to win neither , ..... have a nice day

Tell more. How did you win? What was the game like?

	03-08-2003 22:49									#27
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod I hate diplo victory. It is very unsatisfying. I might be some tiny civ and I've been doing poorly and then I win the game. But I don't feel good about winning. Or, I'll be doing very well, way stronger then the other civs. A domination victory might be in sight. And then, the game will be over, I win because a vote. It is not fun. Tell more. How did you win? What was the game like?

hi ,

culture aint bad , wonders mainly , trade , etc , .....

trying to keep them stupid , dont sell techs unless they are 4 or 5 behind , .....

have a nice day

	04-08-2003 16:40									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Theseus We need a new catch phrase. There is the whole Dark Side thing... and then there is vxma1. "Mountain Sage... [hiss hiss]... I am your father (in AU 208)."

Sorry for the late reply...

Soooo, you are my father, and then Arrian is my mother. With 2 parents like you, I should commit ritual suicide

	04-08-2003 16:43									#29
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Admiral PJ All games require you have wars and conquer other civs, unless your on the lowest difficulty.. I think war is fun in civ3 anyhow.. peace is for hippies

Nope. My first game on Emperor was a Perfect Peacenik game. I never went to war, even once. Won the Space Race.

	04-08-2003 17:09									#30
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

War is fun in civ 3, but peace is too. Peace-play means a trading game, where you battle the other civs on the diplomacy screen. It can get a bit quiet in the late game if you're miles ahead, and that's where the diplowin comes in handy. I think that building a modest but more advanced, productive, and peaceful civ than the rivals is a worthy victory condition.

Peace-play can also be used to build a mighty platform from which to launch late-game assaults.

For me, there is a point at which moving 200-odd units each turn while relentlessly munching up city after city loses some of its edge.