29-07-2003 17:54									#1
	Bill Gates decides to keep R&D local Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The article is kinda big so I won't post it.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...icrosoft29.html

I'm no fan of the guy, but at least he's doing something to keep jobs from relocating overseas. And he's hiring this year too.

	29-07-2003 17:57									#2
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Yeah, he said they'll always keep the vast majority of their development here.

quote: "What other science is going to change the world anywhere near as much as computer science?" he asked.

Similarly: http://news.com.com/2100-1016_3-5056117.html

quote: In a question-and-answer session following his speech, Gates took issue with the notion that a decline in computer science enrollment might be related to the outsourcing of jobs overseas. "Basically, no," he said, adding that there are plenty of job opportunities for computer science graduates, including at Microsoft. It makes sense for Microsoft to keep most of its development efforts centralized in the United States, he added. "We will always have the vast majority of our (major) software development here," he said. "We're not about, 'Can we do the next version of Windows for 5 percent less?'" Gates and Microsoft research head Rick Rashid did express concern that not enough women and minorities were going into computer science, with the number of women entering college computer science programs declining. "That's extremely unfortunate," Rashid said.

	29-07-2003 18:04									#3
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Good.

' "What other science is going to change the world anywhere near as much as computer science?" he (Gates) asked. '

Genetics?

	29-07-2003 18:16									#4
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Like cloning and stuff?
It's very important and very interesting, but I doubt it'll change the world very much -- at least from the perspective of everyday people.

	29-07-2003 18:19									#5
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Shows you how bad M$'s public image is, that they can't afford to go overseas.

	29-07-2003 18:47									#7
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We need those jobs!

	29-07-2003 19:02									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley Shows you how bad M$'s public image is, that they can't afford to go overseas.

This is some kind of joke, right?

Azazel: This article isn't about outsourcing to countries like Israel, but countries like China and India.

	29-07-2003 19:04									#9
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Oursource to us, outsource to us! I'd be a kickass tele-stuff person! ( I need a job).



Oh, and yes, genetics, and genetic engineering will outpace computers in it's application, even to everyday people.

	29-07-2003 19:05									#10
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How?

The people born today are too late for genetic engineering, all they can hope for is transplants from organ harvesting or something.

Besides, computers serve as the catalyst for innovations such as that.

	29-07-2003 19:06									#11
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I'm glad to see that a few companies in the computing industry as still making an effort to keep jobs in the Western World(mainly US and Canada) instead of shipping them overseas(espescially customer support). Wish more companies would follow the lead of Microsoft and Apple in trying to keep their people.

	29-07-2003 19:21									#12
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How is that a good thing though? Those people in India and China need those tech jobs more than American geeks do. You as the consumer also get cheaper computer software. This will free up American geek labor for making more video games instead of OS's.

	29-07-2003 19:26									#13
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Because the quality of the India and China jobs is noticably worse.
If you have revisions to make it's hard to find the original authors, and you can't exactly rely on excellent documentation from them.
Management tends to come from inside at MS, and if all of your employees are faceless people outsourced in India, it doesn't work so well.
With something as complicated as Windows, for example (40M lines of code), it'd be a disaster to get some cheap code monkeys in India to do it.

	29-07-2003 19:57									#14
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The true danger of outsourcing isn't code monkeys mindlessly cranking out reams of software. It's outsourcing your company's R&D. Most new ideas and start-ups are driven by the guys who do R&D. Outsource them and you may gain a quick financial gain, but in the long run you lose your tech edge.

From a humanistic perspective, outsourcing is nothing more than US companies avoiding US labor laws. Simply put, these same US companies would be dragged into court if they treated US workers the way they do their foreign labor. For all the abuse, real and imagined, that MS foists on its US employees, it ain't nothing compared to how shoddily they treat outsourced labor.

I've always thought that 100+ years from now, our descendents will look back on our society with the same disdain we use when we look back on slave owners. Slavery didn't really end. It was just moved overseas.

	29-07-2003 21:37									#15
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quote: How is that a good thing though? Those people in India and China need those tech jobs more than American geeks do. You as the consumer also get cheaper computer software. This will free up American geek labor for making more video games instead of OS's.

It isn't a good thing, except if there's a solid business reason that offsets the savings. Economic nationalism is sooooo 1970s...

quote: You as the consumer also get cheaper computer software.

Mad props to M$ for its gross margins. Mad props!

	29-07-2003 21:56									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How? The people born today are too late for genetic engineering, all they can hope for is transplants from organ harvesting or something.

what about the people born tomorrow. I didn't say that the revolution has already occured, only that when it will, it will change human life more than genetics.

quote: Besides, computers serve as the catalyst for innovations such as that.

irrelevant. To use a hyperbole, you don't credit the harnessing of fire for the invention of computers, do you?

	29-07-2003 22:16									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley Shows you how bad M$'s public image is, that they can't afford to go overseas.

No, software development is a little hard to move over seas then say manufacturing is. Alot of it is a team sport so the MS management would have to travel alot more if they moved oppurations over seas.

	29-07-2003 22:51									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel irrelevant. To use a hyperbole, you don't credit the harnessing of fire for the invention of computers, do you?

Perfect example to illustrate my point:
If one specific technology can impact virtually every industry and serve as a catalyst for innovation in all of those industries, it is not "irrelevant", it is quite obvious that it, indeed, is perhaps the most profound innovation of the time and affects people the most.

It's not all about end-users seeing a direct difference, but how it got there. So if one field's recent innovations push virtually every field forward, why is that field's contributions "irrelevant" when credit is given?

	30-07-2003 01:45									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How? The people born today are too late for genetic engineering, all they can hope for is transplants from organ harvesting or something. Besides, computers serve as the catalyst for innovations such as that.

Gates is talking about the future though, "What other science is going... ", and he doesn't imply that he is necessarily talking about the present generation.

I was just playing devils advocate, though. I truly believe that the prime limitation of the growth and stability of any society is the means and ease of communications, and that when you get down to it, the most important thing for any civilization is how well society talks to itself and to others.

You are quite correct in that computers will play a much larger role in the development of genetics than genetics will play in the development of non-biological computers. But don't underestimate the impact of medical advances as a whole upon the human race. If we gain immortality, that would be a breakthrough that could dwarf anything computer related.

Imho, of course.

	30-07-2003 01:48									#21
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For some reason, I first read the title "Bill Gates decides to keep BBQ local"

I wonder what kind of a BBQ Bill Gates would hold.

	30-07-2003 01:50									#22
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I was aiming EXACTLY at that, JohnT.

	30-07-2003 02:01									#23
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Good. ' "What other science is going to change the world anywhere near as much as computer science?" he (Gates) asked. ' Genetics?

as alwasy the answer is physics

Jon Miller

	30-07-2003 02:20									#24
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Gates is talking about the future though, "What other science is going... ", and he doesn't imply that he is necessarily talking about the present generation. I was just playing devils advocate, though. I truly believe that the prime limitation of the growth and stability of any society is the means and ease of communications, and that when you get down to it, the most important thing for any civilization is how well society talks to itself and to others. You are quite correct in that computers will play a much larger role in the development of genetics than genetics will play in the development of non-biological computers. But don't underestimate the impact of medical advances as a whole upon the human race. If we gain immortality, that would be a breakthrough that could dwarf anything computer related. Imho, of course.

I seriously doubt we're going to achieve immortality, as that'd destroy the planet pretty quickly. That's more science-fiction than anything else.

I also don't think Gates was talking that far into the future.

	30-07-2003 02:22									#25
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Actually, if we look at the things we've done in these 100 years, and the exponential form the amount of knowledge has taken as a function of time, the next 100 years will certainly be the most exciting, dangerous, and unpredictable to live in, ever.

	30-07-2003 03:37									#26
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nanotech

	30-07-2003 04:16									#27
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say why wasn't nanotech in Civ while fusion power is?

	30-07-2003 04:27									#28
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quote: "What other science is going to change the world anywhere near as much as computer science?" he asked.

Biotechnology, which includes genetics. Arguably, it's already had more effect on the world than computers. As the science develops, it will quickly become the most important scientific branch of our times, at least to the common populace.

	30-07-2003 04:33									#29
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What does the "technology" part of biotechnology use?

	30-07-2003 05:08									#30
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quote: What does the "technology" part of biotechnology use?

I don't see what you're driving at. Well, actually I do, but it isn't worth embarassing you over. Just know that "biotechnology" is just a word to distinguish organic technological constructs from the older and more common synthetic ones.