30-07-2003 14:54									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Kman, go with David.. it'll be very good
Two thumbs up.

	30-07-2003 15:57									#62
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Kung Fu! Just find a decent teacher, bloody difficult to find. Although it might be boring to learn to do 3 punches and two kicks for a year and then start doing a form or something. But you should see what a talented KF fighter can do... I've got a friend and let's just say that you don't want to mess with him (not to speak of his older brother) even though he's 16.
And our teacher isn't that traditional either. More's the pity - traditional teachers have a much lesser tendency to "bloat" it like someone here mentioned - they focus on studying very slowly, a few techniques and learn them good.
David - street fights had better not end on the floor... There's a reason why traditional martial arts don't focus on ground fighting - I remember what happend the first and last time I took somebody down to the floor in a real fight and I know what to do on the floor(I've handled people almost twice as big as me on the mat).
Let's just say that I was lucky that I can take a beating and that help arrived. It's not fun to be a focus of five guys holding you and kicking at you while another is sitting on you. It went pretty good for me (except that I almost earned myself a good time in prison...) till I made the foolish decision to go on the floor.

	30-07-2003 16:00									#63
	Suffering from ads?

Firelad,

Yes, most fights will certainly go to the ground. Not all, but most. As for going to the ground against 5 guys, well, in a standup fight you are just as screwed, so that's a faulty scenario.

You do NOT want to be flat on your back on asphalt, which is why I don't really recommend any type of grappling style that involves wearing a uniform (or any martial art, for that matter). That's why I take Valetudo. It incorporates a lot of elements of jiujitsu, but it is more street realistic - it teaches alternate forms of the guard, and it teaches you to put your thumbs in people's eyes and pull outward, among other things.

	02-08-2003 21:13									#64
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV If you want a leisure interest for balance and fitness you are probably better off looking at tai chi, possibly alongside a gentler kung fu style. If you want competition fighting then one of the karate styles will do. If your interest is self defence then ju-jitsu or a derivative, particularly if you are a smaller person, was originally intended for that and some classes will deal with responding to "real life" situations and multiple opponents. If you want to train and develop fighting responses then any of the kickboxing styles is good for that kind of conditioning.

Make no mistake, Taichi is an extremely powerful art. The only drawback is it takes longer training to be effective. The other point is it's entirely defensive like aikido, whether that is good or bad is up to you.

	03-08-2003 02:30									#65
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have to disagree WRT Tai Chi being a powerful fighting system. It might be a great ART, and it certainly is difficult to do well and very nice looking when it is done well, but it is certainly not a dedicated fighting system, in the way that Muay Thai is, or Valetudo is.

	03-08-2003 03:42									#66
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

From what I've seen, Tai Ji and Qigong are both arts that stress internal fortitude in lieu of offensive attacks. So while they might look more conservative, they can be very powerful even though not in a directly damaging way.

I do agree that a good Tai Ji practitioner is hard to find in the West, though. Most of the ones I've seen are in it for the artistic and not the martial aspects. If you can find a dedicated teacher who has a genuine background in Tai Ji, you could stand to develop a very robust style.

As for Wing Chun, I haven't tried it, but I have seen a practitioner of that style and he looked like he knew what he was doing. I can't say it was all because of that style though (the guy dabbled in many others).

I have personally always wanted to try Jie Quan Dao (Jeet Kun Do), the style that Bruce Lee started. That claims to incorporate the most practical aspects of other styles, while not overlooking valuable internal aspects such as breathing and muscle tension. The problem is finding a good teacher!

	03-08-2003 05:54									#67
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I have to disagree WRT Tai Chi being a powerful fighting system.

Would you say aikido is a powerful fighting system, even though it too is completely defensive? Same thing.

	03-08-2003 06:30									#68
	Got spare money?

Yeah, aikido was nice when I did it. (For the extremely long period of two months...)

I liked the rolls and the recoveries - they're things that I didn't learn in karate or even judo (although judo has more groundwork).

	03-08-2003 07:25									#69
	Support Apolyton

quote: Would you say aikido is a powerful fighting system, even though it too is completely defensive?

Not really.

I do have an observation, though. In no holds barred fighting competitions, I have seen straight kung fu style fighters compete a total of twice. The first guy lost badly to Royce Gracie, a Brazilian Jiujitsu stylist, and the second guy lost even worse to Dave Beneteau, a wrestler/ground-and-pound specialist. This leads me to believe that styles such as these are, on the whole, more effective in terms of realistic fighting than kung fu systems.

	03-08-2003 07:27									#70
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Let me expand on my "not really" comment, WRT to Aikido being a powerful art. The problem with a defensive style is that it depends on reactions to the opponent - it requires that you are able to anticipate and counter any move your opponent can make, and it assumes that you aren't going to get hit. This is inherently less powerful than a system that teaches you to go straight after an opponent with punches, leg kicks, and take downs, get him on the ground, and pound on his face. Or, even worse, put your thumbs into both of his eyes, hard. Or, stand up and stomp on his face.