30-07-2003 14:44									#61
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Europe is a matter of degree

Everything is a matter of degree.

Man you sound like the guy who wrote lyrics for Michael Jacksons 'we are the world'. Wake up and smell the coffee .

	30-07-2003 14:47									#62
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No, it just should tell you that a statement "we are not equal" is way too general to base any conclusion on it.

Where is the inequality?

	30-07-2003 14:51									#63
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We are the wooooorld, we are the Europeee
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
Theres a choice we're making
We're saving out own lives
its true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

come on! everybody sing with me! Grab the hand to the person next you!

We are the woooorld, we are the Eurooope
We are the best in the who wide world
and we know it
There are bunch of people who wants to be like us
but they'll never be
just you and like me....

My European friends, I LOVE YOU! WOOHOO!

	30-07-2003 14:53									#64
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That would be a nice song if I didn't hate Jackson like the plague.

	30-07-2003 14:56									#65
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*lights the zippo*

one more time!

It’s close to midnight and something evil’s lurking in the dark
Under the moonlight you see a sight that almost stops your heart
You try to scream but terror takes the sound before you make it
You start to freeze as TRUE EURO looks you right between the eyes,
You’re paralyzed

’cause this is eurooo, euro night
And no one’s gonna save you from the beast about strike
You know it’s eurooo, euro night
You’re fighting for your life inside a killer, Europe tonight

Can't you just feel Europe grooving?
Britney is just no match to us!

Last edited by Pekka on 30-07-2003 at 15:02

	30-07-2003 15:01									#66
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triple*

	30-07-2003 15:02									#67
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post*

	30-07-2003 15:03									#68
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I strongly disagree with Pekka.


In Finland we have this small and odd minority of finno-americans.
Finns that love everything american, they want to emigrate, their favourite music is either country or rock, most of them dress like cowboys, drive silly american macho cars made in in 1960ties or 70' that consume gallons of gas. Usually they have very low self-esteem and are extremely critical towards Finland and European culture, on the other hand they praise and blindly love everything american. In few words they're pain in the azz

	30-07-2003 15:05									#69
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laurentius, they are called rockabillys, and if you're trying to say I'm one of them, I have to destroy you .

What's the point? That there are some folks listening to Elvis? Listen, you just thin you're the majority, the new breed youngsters who are all Euro, because it's #1 contender agaisnt the US. That's all there is to it.
If you think we are so very Euro, then you need to get out and read the papers and if you think rockabillys or whatever the hell those greeseballs are, are the one and only group you are mistaken badly.

	30-07-2003 15:12									#70
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And as you approached the way of making personal insult (yeah you can always say that's not the case but who are you really kidding), which is not very Euro from you, I will have no other choices than think you are hurt by my comments of the lacking equality and unity in Europe.

You came with 0 arguments to bunk my claims, so I guess that makes you a troll?

	30-07-2003 15:12									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka If you think we are so very Euro, then you need to get out and read the papers and if you think rockabillys or whatever the hell those greeseballs are, are the one and only group you are mistaken badly.

I'm not talking about rockabillys here. I'm talking about those weird and amusing hillbillies up north aka pohjalaiset mostly.
People like Timo T.A Mikkonen.
http://seiska.fi/taustakuvat/katso.asp?image=tta1024x768.jpg



We are, have always been and will always remain europeans like it or not.
Not trying to insult you my friend.

	30-07-2003 15:15									#72
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Ok, lets argue

	30-07-2003 15:16									#73
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What is your major mailfunction young man? I never said we are not European?!?!? I said many times that yes it is a fact.

Hillbillies? So you say I'm a ****ing hillbillie? Get a clue.
You are acting just like TRUE EURO right now. Wanting to appear as elite, pushing others down. Calling everyone else hillbillies. I hope that's not a European thing.

Waste of time.

Well, you and other 'non-hillbillies' can always make a human chain throughout the Europe, hand in hand and sing songs. I already provided the lyrics.

	30-07-2003 15:18									#74
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And when did I call you hillbilly? chill, man

you seem to be so full of hatred

	30-07-2003 15:21									#75
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You didn't call my directly that, but you hinted that way.
But I'm already over it.

	30-07-2003 15:21									#76
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<---- Euro flag

I feel much better about being European than British. The European parliment is a bit **** at the moment though.

	30-07-2003 15:23									#77
	Remove this text

I'm not full of hatred, and also I'm not the one calling people by names that are insulting, and then doing the innocent act and continue blaming the other guy for getting pissed at it. If I call someone by insulting names, then I stand behind what I said, or I apologize.

	30-07-2003 15:28									#78
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Question - why do we have an EU?

Answer 1 - to promote economic stability in europe.

Answer 2 - to try and ensure the member states solve their differences by other means than starting a shooting war with each other.

Conclusion - it is a success so far and will continue even though people will whine about the details (sometimes with justification).

That's it really. Over to the trolls.

	30-07-2003 15:29									#79
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Hey, Pekka I dont' know if You are finno-american, I dont know if you listen to country, dress like cowboy or are you even pohjalainen for example. I honestly was not trying to insult you. If you recognised yourself from my description and feel insulted, my apology.
It's just that these euro-bashers are sometimes a bit amusing in their bias
And it's not just Finland, I know that theres authentic "Western" or "Wild-West"- village in Germany with all these freaks running around playing cowboys

	30-07-2003 15:31									#80
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Cerberus, well I'm not trying to argue with your post. I pretty much agree.

But some people just make it sound like it's something glorious and absolutely fantastic and jolly in a way that it isn't.

	30-07-2003 15:34									#81
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laurentius, ok I was heated too. I can't stand this summer heat anyway.

No, FYI I'm not one of these people. The only one I know is Timo TA Mikkonen. I never knew this thing was that popular in here. And yes, apology accepted, and if you even dream about calling my pohjalainen in your sleep, you must wake up and come here to apologize

My intention was not to bash Europe. But I did some bashing I admit. My intention was just to point out, that not every euro is euro in heart, and that Europe in general is not so unified to begin with. Just bunch of countries. THat's it. It's fact, and it ends right there.

	30-07-2003 15:37									#82
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But EU is fantastic, why would you like the old times back? Would you like to live in politically and economically unstable Europe that would be divided into allies and counter allies, where everyone would stab each other to the back and evenscientific research would be intra-nation mostly?

It's just horrible to even imagine that German Hefe-Weissbiers would be even more expensive-due to tolls- than they are today

(where is the beer smiley when you need one

Last edited by laurentius on 30-07-2003 at 15:42

	30-07-2003 15:51									#83
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From a continent mostly destroyed in 1946, made of people having killed eachother for 1000 years, we have made a way toward an improbable association of willing countries. The freedom of movement for people, corporations and money has produced some significant achievement, in addition to peace which should not be underestimated.

Vel said that the european economy was not enough integrated to do economies of scale. The very first step, the act of birth or the EU was the Community of the coal and steel, which was nothing else that the rationalization of the production of these two key products in the five original countries.

Amongst other major industrial projects made possible by the economic integration, are : Ariane and Airbus. These two projects resulted in competitive products in hightly technological areas.

There is certainly a lot to be done, but making the europeans (including the British) working together at this level took 50 years, which is not so bad.

Pekka does not know that any country joigning the EU benefits from special programs aiming to help the said country to catch up with the average PIB; and it works; ask Portugal and Greece and Spain. The equality is not an empty concept.

	30-07-2003 15:52									#84
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Also, I think it's all about the variety and depth of unity. I mean howabout if we are so unified that you don't even notice it. I must say I feel very strong unity with other Europeans. We have common past, history, ideologies, present and hopefully future.

It's just that the things unifying are different compared to americans eg. They have this thing called patriotism wich seems really shallow and silly thing to me. You said that other Europeans don't know anything about us. Not true, I can tell. Think about it. How many floridans or maineans give a crap about whats going down in nebraska or utah? They probaly don't know about those places and dont give a damn. It seems to me that you have too high standards. We can be european without lknowing all the languages, histories or artist of each individual european nation

	30-07-2003 15:54									#85
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DAVOUT, So that means true unity and equality? It's still bunch of individual countries and few laws and a loose alliance aimed for not letting us fight each other. Worked for few decades. whopee.

Wait.. It's for you. Mr Jackson would like you to make some lyrics to a new song.

	30-07-2003 15:59									#86
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laurentius, yeah sure we have common history, what ever you mean by that, because we happen to be neighbours to each other. We have common history with everyone if we really think about it. What are European ideologies that are one with every single nation? Our present says in the paper that we are European and that's a fact, but we are not one. IF you think about floridans etc not caring about some folks in nebraska, well.. it's inside the country. We are you know real countries in this Europe.

	30-07-2003 16:00									#87
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quote: How many floridans or maineans give a crap about whats going down in nebraska or utah?

For the record, a Floridian called me today and wanted to know all about what was going down in Nebraska. Seriously.

quote: IF you think about floridans etc not caring about some folks in nebraska, well.. it's inside the country.

Floridians are still *******s, though, even if we are in the same country.

	30-07-2003 16:00									#88
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Yeah, they are states for sure, but the analogy still works.

	30-07-2003 16:03									#89
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So, your point is that.... Americans are not unified either?
I never said anything about Americas unity.

	30-07-2003 16:07									#90
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So what kind of unity are you talking about? What is it that you want ?