30-07-2003 16:09									#91
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And I also told earlier, that the kind of equality and unity that we are dreaming about.. it's impossible. So we shouldn't talk about it either. It's a loose alliance or union. That's all I've been saying all the time.

	30-07-2003 16:10									#92
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Did you start this thread just because you like to laugh and bash people who are trying to make things better for all of uss. Don't you like peace, stability, wellbeing, respect, love?
EU is very very far from perfect, but I honestly believe they are trying to make up for the mistakes our ancestors did. I hope all good for EU, thats our hope, give it a chance.

Rome wasn't built in one night either

	30-07-2003 16:13									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka DAVOUT, So that means true unity and equality? It's still bunch of individual countries and few laws and a loose alliance aimed for not letting us fight each other. Worked for few decades. whopee.

You mean that a bunch of individual countries would have made Airbus as well, and would have connected their economies to the point that a new currency can be launch, overnight, on jan 1st 2001 for 300 millions people?

But I forgot that for you the EU will not exist until its military matchs the US ... :

	30-07-2003 16:14									#94
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Nah, I just started this thread to brake myths.
And I said earlier (in other thread where this whole thing started) that Europe is Europe, and there are good things in it and they are much more than the few things that are not so good.

I hope for the better Europe and EU too. I hope they will succeed, however I will not see this happening. I see it being mediocre and having nice things and all that, but true success won't become to us. I'm not saying we need it.

Come on don't speak about peace love and what not. Michael is going to give you a call too, soon.

	30-07-2003 16:17									#95
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DAVOUT, I was first talking about Europe, and after that EU. Don't mix things up. For your information, not even every country in EU uses euros, or plan doing it.

	30-07-2003 16:17									#96
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Michael!? Jackson?

	30-07-2003 16:21									#97
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Just my two cents, and then I'll leave.

Europe will be truly united when it will have a federal tax, a federal army, and when its' parliament and government will wield more power than those of the member states. This will be truely sealed when states won't be allowed to leave the union. We could see a european civil war then.

	30-07-2003 16:27									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka DAVOUT, I was first talking about Europe, and after that EU. Don't mix things up. For your information, not even every country in EU uses euros, or plan doing it.

I dont mix things up : you are so fascinated by the US that you cannot see the reality in your own continent. But that is your right. Enjoy using it !

	30-07-2003 16:30									#99
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What's wrong with that? I gave Europe credit for being good, I just think euros thinks is something bigger than it is. Now. It CAN be bigger, and better in the future, but not in the way I think most TRUE EUROS thinks.

	30-07-2003 16:33									#100
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You see me like I'm fascinated by the US and blinded by it's light. In that case, you are like the fan of Michael Jackson thinking he did not molest the kids .




.. just a joke. Don't get angry.

	30-07-2003 16:36									#101
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Pekka: Euros? TRUE EURO? WTF dude? Where do you come up with these ridiculous-obviously anglo-american invented- terms?
It's not like you wouldnt be one of us.

Euros, Eurocommies it's all the same american ****. It melts your credibility just like using M$ fo Microsoft. I don't say "morons" when I talk about americans, in exchange I don't tolerate words like "euros" "TRUE EUROS" or "eurocommies"

so please, Don't be an ass n use em

Last edited by laurentius on 30-07-2003 at 16:41

	30-07-2003 16:41									#102
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Euro? That can be used to mean European, I don't think that's insulting. TRUE EURO I invented myself yesterday, and that is supposed to mean central Europe hegemony masters . It's a bit insulting, though I don't mean the person is very bad. But it is a minor insult, granted.

I am European, I ma euro, sure. I'm not ashamed to be euro either.

And I hate the term eurocom as well, and last time Fez used it, I answered him what I think of the term.

	30-07-2003 16:43									#103
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Yeah well i'ts f u c k i n g annoying

	30-07-2003 16:45									#104
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I know! . And they deserve it too!

Looks like I'm defending myself from attacks coming from right and left and in the middle. Someone could pair up with me and smash these TRUE EUROS away .

	30-07-2003 16:48									#105
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Most of the people I've met from Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland and western Germany tend to consider themselves "European" more than their nationalities. But the French and Italians are far more nationalistic. I've never heard any Brit call himself European, and most Brits I know refer to "Europe" with a sneer.

	30-07-2003 16:56									#106
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Yeah, sad about those Brits, not all of us though.

	30-07-2003 17:11									#107
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[TRUE EURO]
Well they can have their UK THEN! They are nothing but Americas lapdog anyway.. they only pretend to be European..
[/TRUE EURO]

	30-07-2003 17:18									#108
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Aww f*ck off

	30-07-2003 17:20									#109
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laurentius, I didn't call you TRUE EURO, of you got the idea, well I didn't mean it. I don't see you as a TRUE EURO, but you are living in dangerous dream worlds .

Nah, just messing with you.

GO Britney!

	30-07-2003 17:22									#110
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The problem the British have is in forgetting the centuries of assumed cultural superiority they have adopted through giving most of the european countries a good kicking militarily and laughing at what some of them regard as culinary delights, all done without looking in the mirror about what others might think about the British.

It is also worth noting that those military victories were often achieved by the upper class english giving some orders and a bunch of english scum, scotsmen, irishmen and welshmen actually doing the dirty work. If it was really unpleasent they would generally get the welsh to do it!

The real problem now is that the only national politician with the standing and desire to see the UK more involved in europe and drive it forward is Tony Blair. If, as seems likely, he has trashed his trustworthiness in the eyes of the electorate then there is no-one who can and will try to encourage us to be good europeans.

	30-07-2003 17:23									#111
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Yeah, well nice AMERICAN flag you got under your name there Peksu

Dreamworlds? Yeah well just look at my sig.

	30-07-2003 17:26									#112
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quote: If it was really unpleasent they would generally get the welsh to do it!

Someone had to step up and kill frogs for you pansy English.

	30-07-2003 17:26									#113
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What's wrong with that? I'm proud of Finnish flag too.

	30-07-2003 17:27									#114
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I see Pekka has continued trolling but still hasn't explained what inequality or disunity he is babbling about.

	30-07-2003 17:28									#115
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So why american flag?

	30-07-2003 17:33									#116
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Hershostropoler, read the earlie thread. Link is in the first post of this thread.

laurentius, why not? This is just a show of solidarity and support for the country. Doesn't mean I'm anti-euro.
My parents have lived there, my mom lives there and I frequent there. I have few real life American friends too. So why not? I have had our flag there as well.

	30-07-2003 17:34									#117
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hershostropoler, and about not being unified, well just read few posts back where people talk about British people.

	30-07-2003 17:37									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch I have never really understood the argument for European federalisation. I don't see the need to hand over power to a 'superstate' unless it is beneficial, and I also wonder why so many fear that that is going to happen. If we don't want to sign up to an act of federation then we won't.

but it won't be as simple as that, the government won't present the 'surrender our nation to brussels act' tomorrow or any time soon, it will happen gradually. we'll have things like the new european constitution, nibling away at westminster's power, most people won't consider each little surrender of power as important enough to have much impact on who they vote for nationally, and of course we won't get a chance to vote directly on things like the european constitution. because by and large british people don't want any more european interference in the way their country is run and would vote against things like the constitution.

edit: grammar

	30-07-2003 17:46									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Hershostropoler, read the earlie thread. Link is in the first post of this thread.

There it's the same troll and whine over and over again.

Ok, you have no point, no need for me to ask about it.

	30-07-2003 17:50									#120
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hershostropoler, Hmm, and you have been only here to say I'm a troll and I have no points. That would make you with 0 points to this matter as well.

In this thread, at this page, few people have already said, that many folks in UK consider themselves British, and the euro thing is not always that great thing.
So, that counts to unity thing, does it not?