31-07-2003 02:13									#31
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and all that history and tradition doesnt help one bit in the problems in this world...it is good to look at history but just because people did it like this 200 years ago (or longer) doesnt mean they have to do it like this now...times change and people (hopefully) do too...

	31-07-2003 02:19									#32
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Gat marriage = perfectly OK
Gay child adoption = Yuk! (IMO)

	31-07-2003 02:20									#33
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quote: Gay child adoption = Yuk! (IMO)

why?

	31-07-2003 02:29									#34
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What's wrong with gay adoption? Good foster parents are hard to find, and gay people are typically more affluent than straight people. This makes gay people better candidates for adoption than straight people.

	31-07-2003 02:51									#35
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A gay marriage is in itself like if a hetero S&M couple walked around in leather clothing and chains (without having sex) in front of their children every day. Kids should be kept out of sex, especially the odd kinds. They are too young to understand.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against a gay lifestyle, but a gay lifestyle doesn't involve kids (IMO).

	31-07-2003 02:58									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo What's wrong with gay adoption? Good foster parents are hard to find, and gay people are typically more affluent than straight people. This makes gay people better candidates for adoption than straight people.

More to it, the countries where adopted kids come from (at least in Sweden) normally have death or similar penalties for homosexuality. If gays were allowed to adopt here, those countries would close the door forever. Or imagine the horror to the kids who are old enough to understand: "I hope I am not sold to gays from Europe..." It does have to be the full truth for a 6-year old to feel the horror.

	31-07-2003 03:00									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Thank God Bush is protecting marriage, the world is much safer now indeed!!!!! Bush

I agree. Good for Bush.

	31-07-2003 03:05									#38
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You might've well as made the topic, "Bush is a Dumbass Bigot." What difference does it make?

I don't know how people can use technicalities ("marriage is a bond between man and woman") and moral values ("God said no / It is not right / etc.") as a cover for hate. (Someone else said something like this a while ago, but I forgot who... )

	31-07-2003 03:19									#39
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"Bush Against Gay Marriage"

Well, duh - He's a Republican after all!

Of course, I too am a registered Rebublican I chalk it being a sheep in wolf's clothing.

	31-07-2003 03:22									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre More to it, the countries where adopted kids come from (at least in Sweden) normally have death or similar penalties for homosexuality. If gays were allowed to adopt here, those countries would close the door forever. Or imagine the horror to the kids who are old enough to understand: "I hope I am not sold to gays from Europe..." It does not have to be the full truth for a 6-year old to really feel the horror.

Edit: Ooops! Wrong button - Wanted to change some typos in the original text but got a new post instead.

	31-07-2003 03:26									#41
	Re: Re: Bush Shuns Calls to Legalize Gay Marriage Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat quote: "I am mindful that we're all sinners and I caution those who may try to take a speck out of the neighbor's eye when they got a log in their own," the president said. Bush was probably just saying that since we are all sinners, we should not go around calling gays sinners. Of course, Bush probably should have clarified what he meant since it is not very obvious.

EEEEHHHHH!!!! This quote implicitly states that Bush considers homosexuality a sin. How can this be taken any other way? If Bush didn't consider homosexuality a sin then this would be a non-issue. Tolerating and accepting are two totally different things.

Bush

	31-07-2003 03:29									#42
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quote: I am against gay-mariage myself, not because it's against my believe (I am a christian) but because I think it's plain stupid to alter the tradition of mariage that has lasted for millenia just in a few years.

Of course Cyber, and it was probably stupid to allow women to vote too, as men have been in charge of everthing throughout history .

	31-07-2003 03:31									#43
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The to-become conservative party leader in Sweden was the opening speaker at the Stockholm Pride festival this afternoon. He got hate mails from both his own party members (for his opinion) and leaders of the gay movement (who hated him for some of his party members opinion). But I am with the guy. He is much better than the current Conservative Party leader, who made me change vote from Moderate Conservative to Christian Democrate in the last election.

	31-07-2003 03:33									#44
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quote: "Bush Against Gay Marriage" Well, duh - He's a Republican after all!

Hey! I'm for Gay Marriage... As for gay adoption, there is a new show coming out this fall on ABC that is about a young couple that wants to get married. His family are a bunch of back woods rejects and her parents are to gay men... So, I will wait and see how abc handles this and then I will decide

Oh yeah, the show is called "It's All Relative"

	31-07-2003 03:37									#45
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Just so no one thinks this was a post-and-run thread, I plan on commenting later this evening; too busy this afternoon to give my full attention.

	31-07-2003 04:38									#46
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quote: Originally posted by BustaMike Of course Cyber, and it was probably stupid to allow women to vote too, as men have been in charge of everthing throughout history .

Nah, it was stupid to stop feeding the lions with Christians.

Here kitty, kitty, kitty!

	31-07-2003 04:42									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre A gay marriage is in itself like if a hetero S&M couple walked around in leather clothing and chains (without having sex) in front of their children every day. Kids should be kept out of sex, especially the odd kinds. They are too young to understand. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against a gay lifestyle, but a gay lifestyle doesn't involve kids (IMO).

This is so full of unfair stereotype and outright untruth I can't really say much except that you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

http://www.lethimstay.com/

Tell those men they're doing something wrong by those kids.

	31-07-2003 04:54									#48
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The problem is not lack of gay adoption, the problem is lack of willing bio parents. I'm not saying current (anti-condom, anti-abortion) politics is right, I'm just saying gay adoption is not my suggestion to solve the problem.

	31-07-2003 05:02									#49
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The problem is that gays make perfectly capable, willing, loving and nurturing parents for kids, as studies have shown, yet reactionaries are to caught up in their self-styled idea of "tradition" to see that. They'd rather make baseless claims that gay parents are somehow exposing their kids to sex (newsflash: kids of gay parents look at their parents the same way kids of heterosexual ones do).

This case is one of many like it, and I seriously have to wonder about the pro-child claims of social conservatives when they seek to rip kids away from families where they live happily and healthily. Imagine if someone had up and taken you away from your parents and siblings when you were 10 years old. Think it might be a little scarring?

There is no evidence gay parents are any less fit than heterosexual ones on average. Studies have consistently shown that kids raised by gay couples tend to be "normal." In that light, denying any child who needs a good home such parents is, IMO, unconscionable.

	31-07-2003 05:16									#50
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Yeah, "normal" in the eyes of gays... I am a very liberal person to be a conservative voter, but gay child adoption is one exception. Like I wrote, you don't have to f*ck in front of the kids to make them understand that you are different. I belong to an odd minority myself (S&M), but my kids have nothing to do with that. I keep them far away from it. So should gays (IMO).

	31-07-2003 05:36									#51
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The states have no business regulating contracts?

Generally, no, unless a compelling public interest is affected, the contract involves a regulated area of commerce, or one or more of the parties does not lawfully have the capacity or authority to contract.

	31-07-2003 05:46									#52
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quote: unless a compelling public interest is affected

And I doubt that is the case, what goes on in people's bedrooms is their own business etc. Could it be argued that not allowing gay marriage is against the law in that case?

	31-07-2003 05:49									#53
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quote: I belong to an odd minority myself (S&M)

That was more than I wanted to know.

	31-07-2003 05:51									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre Yeah, "normal" in the eyes of gays... I am a very liberal person to be a conservative voter, but gay child adoption is one exception. Like I wrote, you don't have to f*ck in front of the kids to make them understand that you are different. I belong to an odd minority myself (S&M), but my kids have nothing to do with that. I keep them far away from it. So should gays (IMO).

Ludicrous. Your bedroom behavior is rightfully kept in the bedroom, but your being a heterosexual is completely separate from that. The same is true for gay couples, as their relationships are not all about sex. Gay couples keep their sex lives in the bedroom. Why would a kid look at them any differently than a kid looks at their straight parents? Kids aren't as obsessed with sex as you apparently are.

And "normal" in the eyes of sociologists conducting independent studies in which they found the kids of gay couples were, overall, healthy, happy and productive children who did well in school, had good social interaction with other kids and lived in comfort and security. The biggest problems they had were from idiots who saw fit to demean the relationship of their parents. Gee, who does that sound like?

	31-07-2003 05:54									#55
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I still like Bush. I think he has a point here... civil unions is what should be legalized.

	31-07-2003 05:59									#56
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Boris Homophobes adverse reactions are no basis to deny a loving couple the opportunity to bring up a child. On the other hand, since they cannot create one themselves, they must adopt, so unlike heterosexual couples, they have no automatic right to a child. However, as you said, there is no evidence, beyond the prejudiced fears of the ignorant, that homosexual couples will provide lesser quality of parenting than heterosexual couples. Indeed, it will most certainly be superior to the capabilities of single-parents (due to numbers), which is something that society finds acceptable.

Fez: You can get a lot more conservative than Bush, believe it or not, so shouldn't you be flying the helicopter to washington dc?

	31-07-2003 06:02									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I still like Bush. I think he has a point here... civil unions is what should be legalized.

Bush objects to those as well. He is going beyond just letting the states decide for themselves, his little "codifying" statement is a hint at the constitutional ammendment to ban same-sex marriages that Senate Republican Leader Frist advocates.

	31-07-2003 06:05									#58
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Fez: You can get a lot more conservative than Bush, believe it or not, so shouldn't you be flying the helicopter to washington dc?

Shut up you little flying hypocrite.

	31-07-2003 06:05									#59
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I think the presidency needs the female touch. HILLARY!!!

	31-07-2003 06:06									#60
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quote: Shut up you little flying hypocrite

Comrade Fez, I am not airborne!