31-07-2003 12:22									#1
	Will it be possible to hijack a plane in the U.S. after 9/11? Put an end to popups!

After 9/11 I noted the only good that could come out of this is it should be nearly impossible to hijack a plane anymore without serious weaponry like automatic smg's. I don't even think a bomb threat will work.

But now there is talk of Al Quida wanting to hijack a plane(s) again. They seem to be really interested in our commercial airline industry.

I've heard things like using small explosives in cameras and such to distract the passengers. And if the passengers do resist, they will just crash the plane- as they did in Pensslvania on 9/11.

Actually their only intention is crashing the plane, as it doesn't look like any of them have been taking any flight training.

But can it be done?

I would think the passengers would resist the first instant someone tries to hijack the plane. Even if they are white guys (reference to Michael Moore )

	31-07-2003 12:23									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

there are new regulations on getting into the cockpit. bigger/thicker doors and such.

so that even if they had control of the cabin, they could not get into the cockpit.

	31-07-2003 12:25									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

would it be possible to bring down a plane just from within the cabin?

Are there panels in which they can access vital hydraulic or electrical systems?

or maybe they will just use their cell phones and laptop computers to bring down the plane

I would think just opening the door would depressurize the plane. It probably wouldn't bring it down. But surely some passengers would die. They could have all of them remove their seatbelts and they would all be sucked out right?

	31-07-2003 12:31									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

They could just tell the Pilots that they have a bomb and will blow the Passenger Cabin apart if they canīt get into the Cockpit.

I think most Pilots will, under those Circumstances, agree to let them in.

So, yes, I think it will be still possible to Hijack a Plane.

And as for stricter Controls, I donīt know how matters are in America, but in Germany independent News Agencies have tested them by trying to smuggle Pocket Knives into the Passenger Cabin and, despite german Airports declaring that their Passenger Checks are stricter since 9/11, the Reporters were able to get the Pocket Knives through.

So I think the Chance to hijack a Plane are lower than before 9/11, but there is still a good Chance to succeed

	31-07-2003 12:40									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: And if the passengers do resist, they will just crash the plane- as they did in Pensslvania on 9/11.

New evidence and eyewitness accounts suggest an F-16 fighter shot the plane down after Bush "OKed" shooting down any highjacked planes.

	31-07-2003 12:47									#6
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Frozzy New evidence and eyewitness accounts suggest an F-16 fighter shot the plane down after Bush "OKed" shooting down any highjacked planes.

errr yeah, OK

like the U.S. military is competant enough to do something like that. You should should see how lax the U.S. bases were before 9/11.

	31-07-2003 12:50									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I rode on a plane when I was 5 and was allowed into the cockpit (given a mini-tour). All my father had to do was ask...

I doubt that'll be possible now...

	31-07-2003 12:54									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Heavier, bullet-proof doors are being installed on US commercial airliners and the pilots have explicit orders not to open those doors under ANY circumstances when a threat against their aircraft has been made. Flight attendants are also being trained on ways of foiling would-be highjackers, if only to by precious seconds for the cockpit to be made safely secured from attack. Although not entirely a sure thing, US aircraft are much safer than they were. Why these steps weren't taken during all those previous decades filled with highjackings I will never understand...

The worry is foreign aircraft that are not entirely subject to US aviation law being highjacked.

	31-07-2003 12:58									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST They could just tell the Pilots that they have a bomb and will blow the Passenger Cabin apart if they canīt get into the Cockpit. I think most Pilots will, under those Circumstances, agree to let them in. So, yes, I think it will be still possible to Hijack a Plane. And as for stricter Controls, I donīt know how matters are in America, but in Germany independent News Agencies have tested them by trying to smuggle Pocket Knives into the Passenger Cabin and, despite german Airports declaring that their Passenger Checks are stricter since 9/11, the Reporters were able to get the Pocket Knives through. So I think the Chance to hijack a Plane are lower than before 9/11, but there is still a good Chance to succeed

u'd be right if 9-11 didn't happen.

	31-07-2003 13:05									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"Will it be possible to hijack a plane in the U.S. after 9/11?"

Absolutely not. There is no discussion about it. I am talking about airlines based in the US though. Something like Ethoipian Airlines or something could be because of the lack of security measures.. but how would wnat to do that?

	31-07-2003 13:07									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

the best security measure is the passengers themselves.

I think all passengers should be allowed to bring their guns. No terrorist would dare hijack a plane if every passenger had guns on board .

	31-07-2003 13:13									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dissident the best security measure is the passengers themselves. I think all passengers should be allowed to bring their guns. No terrorist would dare hijack a plane if every passenger had guns on board .

Yeah... every passenger can carry M-16 with RPG launchers on them... just pray a bullet doesn't hit the fuel tank when a terrorist tries to hijack the plane.

	31-07-2003 13:14									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Fez Yeah... every passenger can carry M-16 with RPG launchers on them... just pray a bullet doesn't hit the fuel tank when a terrorist tries to hijack the plane.

why is jerry buckheimer producing the hijacking?

	31-07-2003 13:16									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I think all passengers should be allowed to bring their guns. No terrorist would dare hijack a plane if every passenger had guns on board .

Who needs terrorists then!

	31-07-2003 13:17									#15
	Tired of ads?

BTW, to lower the risk I think every plane should carry only one passenger. It would be much easier to control him

	31-07-2003 13:18									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by BeBro BTW, to lower the risk I think every plane should carry only one passenger. It would be much easier to control him

Yes, tickets will be what? $35,000? $50,000? Damn it.. everybody should just buy their own planes...

	31-07-2003 13:23									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Actually, they can buy their own planes for $1,000,000 USD that double as...wait for it...street-legal automobiles! Sorry, don't have the link but some company is actually making "flying cars" commercially available, or at least plan to make them available if the FAA clears it. Obviously, these things would only be allowed airborne at airports and flown by certified pilots...but still pretty damn cool.

	31-07-2003 13:25									#18
	Put an end to popups!

Okay.. where the hell is my dad's credit card...

	31-07-2003 13:29									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Maxed-out already if you're lucky...belated birthday present perhaps?

	31-07-2003 13:37									#20
	Put an end to popups!

Getting back on-topic, though, I imagine the FAA would be a little hesitant to approve of such vehicles. If would-be highjackers can't get their hands on large commercial airliners within US borders, then lighter aircraft would be their next obvious choice. Normal aircraft ain't cheap, and terrorists aren't exactly hesitant to ignore inconvenient aviation regulations. There would be little stopping terrorists from getting the aircars airborne outside of airports per FAA regulations. These things are specifically designed to be functional on existing roads. With wings folded, they'll fit inside regular parking, inside traffic lanes, and speed along with the flow of traffic. Yes, yes, it would be hard for terrorists NOT to draw attention to themselves driving one of these things around, but still the concern will be addressed.

	31-07-2003 13:50									#21
	Put an end to popups!

It's not possible to hijack a plane with a nail cutter. The moment of surprise is gone and passengers will resist feriously. Therefore I demand to be allowed to bring my Leatherman, as in the good old days! A whiskey bottle from the tax-free shop or a pencil could easily be used to kill somebody for a terrorist without remorse, so why allow that but forbid small metal objects.

If I had a bunch of volounteering suicide bombers, I would give them a custom-made hand grenade each. Liquid explosives could be hidden inside spray or perfume bottles, while the detonators could be disguised inside ball-tip pens. Then the grenade could be assembled in the lavatory and detonated at will.

Just imagine the shock to the world if they sent out 100 guys with such hidden bombs (which can't be that hard to produce for someone skilled in the art). Let's say they had orders to blow a plane out of the air at a certain hour at a certain day. A skilled security control could probably find some of the bombs, with chemical sniffers or whatever, but many would also pass the net. If only 10-20% of them were successful, that would be 10-20 plane chrashes in one day. All air companies would go bankrupt.

	31-07-2003 15:36									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Perhaps, but I think that no pilot will ever open the cockpit door under duress. Why would they let a terrorist take control of a plane, now that the planes themselfs can be the weapon? Better to not let them in, and take it from there than let them, and possible condemn yourselfs and many more.

	31-07-2003 15:54									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by gopher Perhaps, but I think that no pilot will ever open the cockpit door under duress. Why would they let a terrorist take control of a plane, now that the planes themselfs can be the weapon? Better to not let them in, and take it from there than let them, and possible condemn yourselfs and many more.

Because they fear more that a Terrorist ignites a Bomb within the Passenger Cabin if they threaten to do it if he doesnīt open the door to the Cockpit (which I think would also destroy the Plane, if properly positioned) and he hopes, that it just are conventional hijackers which donīt intend to fly the Plane into certain Buildings and so hopes to save all passengers and himself by complying with the Demands of the Hijackers.

But I have to admit that, at least if the Plane flies above american soil, there will be a certain fear, that it arenīt conventional hijackers, but terrorists, and so many Pilots would refuse to open the door.

	31-07-2003 16:52									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

That's quite a question of a specific person, is it not, about opening the door? I think that many pilots would ignore their orders and open the cockpit door as long as they have any hope that those are "conventional" hijackers... and a pilot can never be sure if they are or are not.

Of course, it's far batter to let the terrorists blow the plane up than let them crash it into a building... but how many pilots would be brave enough to refuse to give in?

By the way, what about allowing pilots to carry guns - small pistols? Then noone with a knive or something like that would be able to hijack the plane.

	31-07-2003 17:20									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The terrorists could just buy a private business jet and load it with explosives. If they were technically skilled (which they are not), they could equip it with anti-missile systems as well.

	31-07-2003 17:21									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

That is why the Air National Guard and Air Force need to be on constant patrol, Sandman. There was an incident where a prop-plane I think got too close to the president's motorcade. It was intercepted.

	31-07-2003 17:27									#27
	Got spare money?

It is a question of determination. If someone really wants to hijack a plane and is sufficiently well resourced then they will manage it. The challenge is to make it so difficult it doesn't happen very often.

As for opening the cockpit door under duress I don't think a pilot would do it. Anyone who wants to do a "conventional" hijacking won't destroy the plane, they just want it flown to an airport somewhere and landed and the pilot can do that anyway. Anyone who will blow the plane up wants to crash it into a building and kill everyone on board and other people on the ground. Better to refuse and fewer people will die.

	31-07-2003 17:29									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I doubt that'll be possible now...

Hopefully they will see that you are not 5 ...

	31-07-2003 18:24									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It's just a distraction from their next target: trains. Yes, they plane to crash a train into the White House. I've noticed that the tracks are moving a little closer everyday.

	31-07-2003 18:37									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Of course it is possible to hijack the plane. To say it's not even possible is dangerous IMO, and gives the feeling of faulse security, and that leads to security problems IMO.

I think it is very possible to hijack it no problem. THe problem is that flight attendants, passengers and pilots are all humans. We can not predict how they will react to the situation, not even with training. There are some things that can be exploited I think.

Anything is possible.