31-07-2003 21:36									#1
	Could Republican hopes be dashed in California? Remove this text

As most of you have heard California will be holding a recall election to decide whither or not to recall Governor Grey Davis (Democrat). The recall election has been pushed by a group of right wing Republicans who've dug up a s century old state law dealing with the removal of corrupt politician from office. So far no one, not even the Republicans, has alleged any corruption has taken place yet the recall election is now set to go ahead any way and Republicans across the state are now rejoicing at the prospects that they could take over the Governor’s Mansion just one year after losing a general election.

The Democrats are down but they aren't out yet. In fact the Governor’s office has launched a complex legal challenge claiming that even if the governor was recalled the standing Lt. Governor would assume the office of Governor (as detailed in the state's law dealing with who takes over if the Governor can no longer lead the state) instead of who ever wins the Republican backed replacement election. Davis's lawyers point to a provision of the recall law in which it says a new election for governor will be held "if appropriate". Davis is arguing that a new election would not be appropriate since there is a duly elected legal successor pre the state's successor law.

It sounds complex but legal scholars give the governor’s suite a more then 50-50 chance of success; not that it would insure Davis's political survival but it just might block Republican hopes of stealing the election they lost last year.

	31-07-2003 21:39									#2
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin ... not that it would insure Davis's political survival ...

I believe that it would take an act of God to do that at this point. What's his approval rating now?

	31-07-2003 21:45									#3
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quote: It sounds complex but legal scholars give the governor’s suite a more then 50-50 chance of success; not that it would insure Davis's political survival but it just might block Republican hopes of stealing the election they lost last year.

Actually, Republicans should not want to win. The next couple of years are going to be tough budget years and it would be better to say that all of this is the Dems fault.

	31-07-2003 21:46									#4
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well, yes, if the republicans are sufficiently split.

i don't think it's likely they'll lose, though.

	31-07-2003 21:46									#5
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Davis sucks. 37% of democrats approve of his job, which is one percentage point more then those who support Bush. His ass is on the way out. Our deficit is the largest of any state, we are paying out of our yin yang for electricity, the legislature cant even get a budget approved on the budget deadline. I hate the republicans as much as the next californian. but davis has screwed the pooch.

	31-07-2003 22:01									#6
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Another issue is the budget deficit and why the budget is ALWAYS late. I mean year after year after year the Republicans and Dems fight over the budget and both refuse to compromise one inch. Do you ever wonder why?

I was listening to Capital Public Radio (the NPR affiliate here in Sacramento) and one of the speakers claimed Term Limits which were passed in the 1980's was the roote cause of this disfunctionality. The argument went like before term limits the various high party officials had leverage over the rank in file because you knew the high official would always be around and if the rank and file stepped out of line then he could be black listed and his political career was over. He'd lose all support of the state party and all of the money generated by the state party. Since term limits it people are capped at 8 years in office and it takes 6 years to get to a position of authority. Often times the rank and file can now ignore the party leadership and refuse to do what they tell them (like cut spending in certain areas or raise taxes) because they know the leadership will be out of office by the time the next election rolls around.

I thought that was an interesting point. Effectively the state parties are both lead by lame ducks who can't force compromise so the individuals are refusing to ever compromise.

	31-07-2003 22:13									#7
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Term limits suck. The people can decide how long they want to keep their representative.

	31-07-2003 22:36									#8
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quote: The people can decide how long they want to keep their representative.

So we can have Strom Thurmond's in office until they are 100?

	31-07-2003 22:39									#9
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quote: o we can have Strom Thurmond's in office until they are 100?

Thats right.

	31-07-2003 22:51									#10
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I don't care who gets the job so long as Davis doesn't have it... Sue away dildo

	31-07-2003 23:17									#11
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The recall election is a sick, sick joke. I hope the court puts a stop to the madness. (Note: I won't be more than a bit annoyed if Davis gets recalled, but the qualifications required to have your name placed on the ballot as a replacement are ridiculous.)

	31-07-2003 23:35									#12
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Silly Dems.... it's now 'stealing' an election when complying with a legal recall election . Of course when the Dems say 'stealing' an election you can't ever trust 'em.

	31-07-2003 23:39									#13
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Paying large sums of money to collect signiatures is not exactly a precedent that one should want to set. 13% of the voters are going to be deeply unhappy regardless of who's in office, and with regulations being what they are, I'm pretty sure that if I really, really wanted, I could get my name onto that recall election ballot (this would be really, really sad).

	31-07-2003 23:41									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Silly Dems.... it's now 'stealing' an election when complying with a legal recall election . Of course when the Dems say 'stealing' an election you can't ever trust 'em.

It's a loop hole and you know it Imran. Even if you can't bring yourself to admite it.

	31-07-2003 23:44									#15
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Gotta love the ungreased wheels of Democracy whinning in all it's glory... huh, Victor?

	31-07-2003 23:46									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis Paying large sums of money to collect signiatures is not exactly a precedent that one should want to set. 13% of the voters are going to be deeply unhappy regardless of who's in office, and with regulations being what they are, I'm pretty sure that if I really, really wanted, I could get my name onto that recall election ballot (this would be really, really sad).

All it take is paying $3500 and filling out a one page form. Speaking of getting your name on the ballot... So far 58 people have filled to run for the recall and up to 100 people are expected to run before all is said and done. Theoretically it is possible that Davis could lose with 49% of the vote and the person who wins the recall replaciment election could gain office with something like 19% of the vote.

Does replacing a person who got 49% of the vote with a person who got 19% of the vote make sense? won't that person be unpopular and himself be subject to a recall? I'm seeing a never ending slippery slope here. This sort of crap usually is confined to banana Republics not the Wealthiest place on Earth.

The Republicans are screwing our democracy in their thirst to win no matter what the cost.

	31-07-2003 23:56									#17
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quote: All it take is paying $3500 and filling out a one page form.

And 65 signiatures. But the really, really sad part, is that at the moment, I'm not really a California resident. As far as I can tell though, I could register to vote and run at virtually the same time.

	31-07-2003 23:58									#18
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I know a guy who is going to run just to put it on his resumee

	31-07-2003 23:59									#19
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California has same day registration which was put into law by latino activists in an attempt to help get illegal immigraints to vote. Sure, it's illegal to have noncitizens vote but the Democratic party figured all of the illegal votes would be for them so they look the other way.

	01-08-2003 00:04									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I know a guy who is going to run just to put it on his resumee

I'd run just to write a book about it, but I'm going back to Georgia in two weeks (Damn, why couldn't they do this next year, I'd actually take a semester off from school to run then.)

	01-08-2003 00:29									#21
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If they have 100 candidates, wouldn't that make for a damnably big ballot?

	01-08-2003 00:32									#22
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Yup, seeing as it HAS to be printed in every language ever spoken by man.

	01-08-2003 01:34									#23
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Oerdin: The no allegations of corruption are irrelevant. The recall merely means "I don't like this governor, let's replace him." No wrongdoing needs be proven. Perhaps you're thinking of impeachment?

Davis is arguing that a new election would not be appropriate since there is a duly elected legal successor pre the state's successor law.

I'm not a fan of the recall, but this is ridiculous. They're claiming that when the progressives asked for the ability to recall hideous politicians, they didn't want the ability to recall hideous politicians with a Lieutenant Governor? That's clearly not the intent.

	01-08-2003 01:48									#24
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quote: Oerdin: The no allegations of corruption are irrelevant. The recall merely means "I don't like this governor, let's replace him." No wrongdoing needs be proven. Perhaps you're thinking of impeachment?

We're talking about the state becomming ungovernable here. If you can remove a politician just because 13% of the people who voted last election really hate him, and enough people can be found who at least mildly dislike him: a) who would want the job? b) who would do what's right and not just what happens to be popular at the moment? and c) why would any governor not spend every day of his term doing fundraising and campaining? We might as well just have an election every 6 months.

quote: I'm not a fan of the recall, but this is ridiculous. They're claiming that when the progressives asked for the ability to recall hideous politicians, they didn't want the ability to recall hideous politicians with a Lieutenant Governor? That's clearly not the intent.

I don't think the progressives wanted to legalize toppling the government for personal gain. That's essentially what the guy who funded the recall is trying to do.

	01-08-2003 01:50									#25
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quote: It's a loop hole and you know it Imran. Even if you can't bring yourself to admite it.

Yes, it's a loop hole to say that you can't recall if there is a Lieutenant Governor.

Snowfire is correct, the recall is to get rid of hideous politicians, corruption does not matter one bit.

quote: Does replacing a person who got 49% of the vote with a person who got 19% of the vote make sense?

So you want to Republicans to try to change the law in the middle of an election? Oh right, you are a Democrat, I guess that would sound correct to you .

(PS, this doesn't apply to all Democrats, just Oerdin )

quote: The Republicans are screwing our democracy in their thirst to win no matter what the cost.

You mean the Republican are utilizing your democracy in order to get of an odious Governor who's approval is hovering around 22%? After all, recalls are specially tailored to get rid of horrible politicans without having to wait until the next election.

	01-08-2003 01:54									#26
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Out of curiosity how many Cali governors have faced recall efforts? Given that this is the first time the effort has born fruit in the state, I'd have to say that Davis has been particularly incompetent at his job.

	01-08-2003 01:54									#27
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quote: We're talking about the state becomming ungovernable here. If you can remove a politician just because 13% of the people who voted last election really hate him, and enough people can be found who at least mildly dislike him: a) who would want the job? b) who would do what's right and not just what happens to be popular at the moment? and c) why would any governor not spend every day of his term doing fundraising and campaining? We might as well just have an election every 6 months.

It's hilarious that the Democrats are portraying this to occur now with every governor who ever wins! HELLO?! This man has a 22% approval rating. Not many people are so incompetant to have that low of an approval. Even his own party members hate him.

Recalls only come around once in a while. The last successful recall was North Dakota in the 1910, but you don't hear about governors getting recalled every other year in North Dakota do you? NO, because this is unique.

	01-08-2003 03:44									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu If they have 100 candidates, wouldn't that make for a damnably big ballot?

Welcome to the crappy Republican twilight zone.

Normally there is 2-3 candidates but the qualifications to be a recall candidate are so low every tom, ****, and hairy is now a candidate.

	01-08-2003 03:49									#29
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Out of curiosity how many Cali governors have faced recall efforts? Given that this is the first time the effort has born fruit in the state, I'd have to say that Davis has been particularly incompetent at his job.

This is the only time the law has ever been used. Like I said the Republicans have dug this up and are risking the future of our state simply because they smell a political oppurtunity. It is shameless that our states political stability is being put at risk by a bunch of sore losers.

	01-08-2003 03:51									#30
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Dug it up?

It's a valid law on the books. IIRC, just about every governor has had some recall votes against him, but never even close enough to get to this point. Just shows you how unpopular Davis is.