03-08-2003 12:51									#151
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Now, after all at least they believed to have seen him.

After all I don´t cast in doubt, that Jesus could de facto have been risen from his Deadbed.

But even, if you assume, that the story of Jesus rising from his Deadbed is correct, it it is difficult to take it as proof of Gods existence as, with the medical Experience of people 2000 years ago,
he could just have been in a state of suspended animation
and awoke lying in his grave.

After all we have no Report of Jesus showing all Signs of sure Death, such as Rigor mortis or Livores.

Last edited by Proteus_MST on 03-08-2003 at 12:56

	03-08-2003 15:07									#152
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Hmm, Vel is always arguing with me that communism is evil because its implementation has created far more evil than good in the world ... At any rate, it shows that the practice of Christianity has been pretty bad over the ages. Very out of step with the theology or "truth" of Christianity.

The practice says nothing about whether or not it is tue.

quote: Why is God supposedly a He? If God is omnipotent, couldn't God also be a She if God wants? I prefer 'It' (with the upper case 'I') for God - unless of course 'God' is some sort of third-person divine pronoun ...

This is purely a semantic point. I am perfectly happy to say 'She' if you like. Normally one does not like 'It' becaue you would use that for something lower than yourself.

quote: At any rate, talking snakes, towers to heaven, the universe created in 6 days, a flood that wipes out all flesh except two of each kind of animal (inbreeding problems?), and best of all - a God that loves all people, but if you don't believe in It you burn in hell for all eternity. This all sounds inconsistent at best and completely hokey at worst. Are you ****ing serious that this can't be disproven? Show me one talking snake! Explain how Hell fits in with God's infinite goodness and compassion.

How can the actions of an onipotent God possibly be disproven? It doesn't matter what needs to be proven or disproven, as soon as you put a non-physical object into the midst anything can be true. I don't believe in the 6-day dreation and the flood literally because I don't think that is God's style, but there is absolutely nothing I can do to disprove them. This guy (or gal) is omnipotent - the universe could have been made yesterday and your memories implanted!

As for hell, whether or not you go has nothing to do with your beliefs. The premise is that we have all turned our backs on God by sinning, and this sin must be punished because letting it go would be wrong too. God is being magnanimous by taking the punishment for it himself. If we want to accept his gift, we can and go into eternity with him. If we don't want to then we are turning our backs on God and walking into hell ourselves.

God is not sending you to hell - you are going of your own free-will. What should God do - force you?

	03-08-2003 16:00									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST After all we have no Report of Jesus showing all Signs of sure Death, such as Rigor mortis or Livores.

Even if someone survived the cross, he won't walk around healthy as if nothing happened.

	03-08-2003 17:41									#154
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Even if someone survived the cross, he won't walk around healthy as if nothing happened.

The Big Question always is how much is true and how much is exaggerated.
For example from "being still alive" and "being still alive, walking healthily" ist a small step, especially if you take into account, that several years passed till the Gospels got written by People which are now known as Matthäus, Markus, Lukas and Johannes but who, with some certainty, weren´t the Apostels themselves.
So it is probable, that those people who wrote the stories about Jesus mixed things which might have been told to them by the Apostles themselves or they even personally experienced in their life with other things, they just knew from hearsay. Whereby some of the things they wrote perhaps got exaggerated (either unintentionally, or maybe even intentionally, to impress people).

But yes, if it is (or were) true that he walked healthily around afterwards (with his Wounds healed) it might of course be considered a miracle.