03-08-2003 02:51									#91
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Let me first say I have no problem with jobs going to Canada/Japan/ Western Europe (nor would I have a problem with moving) nations of high standards of living were corporations cant exploit workers, cause the populations are much better educated. As Im sure they have no problem with there's coming here. But this stuff going to Guatamala and Indonesia isnt good.

	03-08-2003 02:56									#92
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I only bothered to read the first 3rd of this thread, so forgive me if somebody already posted this...


Most businesses automatised 10-20-30 years ago, so why shouldn't yunk-food? Capitalism is not collapsing from this, it is growing stronger.

Instead, capitalism is collapsing when the US government raises import duties on products like steel, so that the obsolete American steel industry can survive a few more years without investing in modern production equipment. Government support to unprofitable companies is really a communist thing that you don't expect conservatives to do. The Swedish steel industry went through a blood bath in the 80'ies and is now fit for fight, while the Americans ignored that. The Bush government's artificial breathing will only help them a few years longer, but without investments they are eventually doomed!

	03-08-2003 03:00									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre I only bothered to read the first 3rd of this thread, so forgive me if somebody already posted this... Most businesses automatised 10-20-30 years ago, so why shouldn't yunk-food? Capitalism is not collapsing from this, it is growing stronger. Instead, capitalism is collapsing when the US government raises import duties on products like steel, so that the obsolete American steel industry can survive a few more years without investing in modern production equipment. Government support to unprofitable companies is really a communist thing that you don't expect conservatives to do. The Swedish steel industry went through a blood bath in the 80'ies and is now fit for fight, while the Americans ignored that. The Bush government's artificial breathing will only help them a few years longer, but without investments they are eventually doomed!

for europe to lecture america on corporate welfare is a joke. airbus was basically bought w/ european tax dollars INTO competition. so whining about the steel industry hanging around a lil longer is absurd. also I hear ur farmers are more subsidized than ours(which is crazy to think about).

	03-08-2003 03:04									#94
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There Steel is subsidized too and going the way of ours.


Steel isnt needed anymore. Most cars arent made of it and its alot cheaper when it comes from damn China.

	03-08-2003 03:07									#95
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory There Steel is subsidized too and going the way of ours. Steel isnt needed anymore. Most cars arent made of it and its alot cheaper when it comes from damn China.

I don't think america will ever stop making steel(I could be wrong). but if we still have that old WWII doctrine. then there are some things for national security that we can't stop making.

	03-08-2003 03:11									#96
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quote: Originally posted by yavoon for europe to lecture america on corporate welfare is a joke. airbus was basically bought w/ european tax dollars INTO competition. so whining about the steel industry hanging around a lil longer is absurd. also I hear ur farmers are more subsidized than ours(which is crazy to think about).

Which is why I vote conservative... If they can't make a profit, to bad for them!

	03-08-2003 03:11									#97
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We abandoned that long ago when things like our Jet engines and Tank frames are being sold to the lowest bidder and bought from 10 different countries. Mostly Israel, Taiwan, Canada, Mexico, Germany...etc. But still. Most of it is still done here. But a trend has already started, and eggheads like Rumsfeld want to start looking for ways to cut costs.

	03-08-2003 03:13									#98
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If the current trend continues, America and China will be so dependent upon each other in a few years that another major source of war is eliminated!

	03-08-2003 03:15									#99
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I will say this though, I hate europe for doing it. but air bus was a smart idea. just like japan sheltering its corporations was smart. but now comes the squeeze, can airbus now that its been lifted artificially actually make it on its own. or will it just drain european coffers well on into the future.

	03-08-2003 03:15									#100
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Or China gets so strong our threats and bigsticking are ignored. Unless we keep alot of nukes

	03-08-2003 03:22									#101
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Or China gets so strong our threats and bigsticking are ignored. Unless we keep alot of nukes

I said dependent upon each other: If we go bust, they go bust along with us. Thus they would align their interests along our lines. Threats and bigstickings would be replaced by negotiations, hagglings, and influence buyings.

	03-08-2003 04:29									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You will either get this right off the bat or you won't get it at all. If the machines create more jobs than there were previously that is not a productivity improvement. It's just the opposite.

No, because more things can get made. Thus, by definition, productivity increases

Seriously, I think it is an improvement for people to move from flipping burgers to working in an office, etc.

	04-08-2003 03:59									#103
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What baffles me is that the same product that sells for $10 in the USA sells for $1 in China. That is why you need $20,000 a year to get by in the Rust Belt while a worker in China can live pretty well on $2,000.

US consumers can't expect to have cheap products and not lose their jobs to cheap workers elsewhere at the same time.